Zack Olinger: How to avoid unnecessary conflict that leads to resentment.
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Steve Werner: Welcome back to grow your impact income and influence the number one show for reaching millions of people, whether you are online live in person.
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Steve Werner: or somewhere else in the world, this show is all about how to get your message out and fix challenges in your life.
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Steve Werner: Today, I have an amazing episode, if you are a guy you are going to sit up and listen we’re going to talk about.
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Steve Werner: How relationships can go sideways how you end up in arguments, where you feel wrong and the other person feels wrong and your relationship falls apart if you’ve ever thought women might be slightly crazy.
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Steve Werner: let’s be honest we’ve all had that thought somewhere in our mind you’re going to want to sit up and listen, today we have zach on the show zach welcome, how are you.
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Zack Olinger: i’m excellent thanks Dave appreciate you having me thanks yeah.
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Steve Werner: No problem i’m i’m pretty excited for this one I grew up with three sisters and I got to see firsthand like kind of how things go behind the scenes at a young age.
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Steve Werner: So when I got into relationships I kind of knew what to expect a little bit, but I still to be honest, have struggled with this right because guys are definitely logic brain like we’re like a.
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Steve Werner: b equals C and sometimes it doesn’t always end up like that, but I want to know, like how you got to where you are being a relationship coach work through this helping guys understand it where did this all start for you.
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Zack Olinger: gotcha I can I can appreciate that I grew up with two sisters as well, so the background is similar so where it started with me is.
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Zack Olinger: Really, I can think back, I can go back into high school where I was reading like you know cosmopolitan or 17 magazine, and that kind of a thing I was reading the girls magazines, because I wanted to know what was going on on the opposite side I figured if I wanted to be.
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Zack Olinger: A good partner, I wanted to know what the opposite sex was being programmed with what was going on in their head because that’s kind of like the very.
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Zack Olinger: Beginning of the genesis of it and then i’ve got later on in life, I got married went through a divorce.
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Zack Olinger: And that set the stage for me to kind of like really start to look inward to myself, through a slow kind of painful process and then, as I went through that more just kind of self development type of route I just became more and more aware of like.
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Zack Olinger: of different dynamics between between people and just recently I came into an awareness that, like my background is it was an it for 24 years and.
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Zack Olinger: there’s a same mental faculty that I was employing in my relationships that made me good at it as well it’s just like how I would.
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Zack Olinger: pay attention to certain details, well, I may not have always shown up the best of my relationships, there was a certain way that I observed things that made me present with my partner, so I felt like I knew them really well, even if I wasn’t showing up my best so.
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Zack Olinger: That kind of zigzags through like where it landed me right now is that.
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Zack Olinger: Over the last year i’ve definitely come into more awareness about where kind of where I believe a lot of conflict originates from and relationships and wanting to work with men to like help them reduce that level of conflict, increase the the amount of fun so yeah.
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Steve Werner: awesome I mean who doesn’t want less conflict and more fun one of a question that I always had.
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Steve Werner: And I would love your thoughts on is just does a good relationship have to have some amount of conflict right because we’re never going to see eye to eye on everything, regardless of how much I love or care about somebody or.
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Steve Werner: right but we’re still not going to see eye to eye, so there.
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Steve Werner: To me, there has to be conflict.
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Steve Werner: But it doesn’t have to be painful conflict is.
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Steve Werner: My take on it, do you agree with that disagree.
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Zack Olinger: yeah absolutely I think we’re never going to like remove conflict entirely that’s true so that’s not necessarily my objective with things but.
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Zack Olinger: I guess I should frame it and the way that I call it unnecessary conflict so it’s the type of conflict where.
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Zack Olinger: Like certain fights happen that could last like hours or days or weeks or months depending that lead to like resentment and that’s really just rooted in a misunderstanding of what’s going on.
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Zack Olinger: But that’s really like where I like to go with it, otherwise yeah there’s gonna be there’s gonna be conflict at tussles between the two in any relationship sure.
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Steve Werner: Well, I mean, I think I can only speak for myself, but again i’d love your feedback like my thought has always been it’s better to have.
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Steve Werner: An honest, open discussion when something isn’t how I see it, or how you see it or how it should be.
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Steve Werner: Like it’s better to just get that stuff out, then let it in and fester right if we just have a quick discussion about it, it may not be the most fun discussion because it’s it’s on something that we don’t see eye on but then we’ll figure it out.
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Steve Werner: And we’ll move on, rather than having like resentment breed right because over over time that’s what happens, a little little pinprick here a little bit there um, do you agree.
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Steve Werner: Like is that is that kind of where you’re going.
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Zack Olinger: yeah for sure, and part of that open discussion, the thing that I like to go with and i’d like to the facts that you mentioned earlier that were that as men were logical and you use like even mathematics is like a way to illustrate that because where I go with like.
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Zack Olinger: What I like to talk about is that there are principles that play between men and women are the masculine and feminine energies and.
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Zack Olinger: When I approached me with that at this for like to come from like and I don’t like to say, like even coaching can be like a word that turns me off or or like you know that self help idea or like therapy any of those kind of words like men have an aversion to.
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Zack Olinger: So I really like to just say like to bring things into awareness people’s awareness and then i’d like to say that there’s principles that play so.
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Zack Olinger: In this regard I liken it to like mathematics, where it’s like we didn’t know that two plus two equals four until somebody made us aware of that fact and showed us the principles that play that made that the truth, you know and.
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Zack Olinger: you’re constructing a sentence, you know, like until we became aware of how to do so, so the same thing with these types of principles with between the feminine masculine and feminine energies that there’s principles that play.
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Zack Olinger: And once we become aware of them, then we’re able to actually like work to gain that level of understanding and awareness so that way when we have these discussions with our partner.
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Zack Olinger: it’s coming from a place where it gives us a better opportunity or a better chance to like come from a better understanding to reduce the conflict and not just have a conversation that might not.
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Zack Olinger: Even though we said we had it, it may not really lead to any type of resolution that feels satisfying on either side, so.
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Steve Werner: So walk me through what some of these what like what are the principles what walk me through what that looks like because to me it’s just let’s have a conversation but i’d love to hear like.
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Steve Werner: bulls, and like what what are you bringing to awareness, for what do you think most guys are blind to do you have a better way to phrase that.
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Zack Olinger: yeah yeah absolutely um so yeah like with some of the questions that I asked you to like he mentioned in the intro like about you a lot of times when men.
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Zack Olinger: are in a relationship or even not you know when they see a woman or the feminine express itself.
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Zack Olinger: With like some emotional you know passion or power, it can feel very antagonizing or threatening you know to us and that’s where the phrases like.
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Zack Olinger: You need to calm down or like she’s acting crazy, you know these types of things kind of are born out of that idea and the way that I see it, is that the reason we.
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Zack Olinger: As men come out with those types of phrases is because we don’t.
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Zack Olinger: Truly understand what’s being experienced you know because we don’t understand the principles we’re not really modeled it, you know, not by no fault of our own.
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Zack Olinger: You know, we just weren’t we’re we’re not modeled it in our culture, our fathers weren’t modeled it, you know it’s been passed down so it’s no not blaming anybody i’m not.
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Zack Olinger: Saying anybody’s done, not knowing these things i’m just saying just this how it how it’s how we’ve come to be.
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Zack Olinger: So what it looks like really is, and I do want to back up real quick and say that we all embody the masculine and feminine energy, so this is not gender based so like when I say feminine this isn’t just women.
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Zack Olinger: Men embody the feminine energy as well, so each individual regardless of gender and bodies both principles, the masculine and feminine that that’s an important piece to recognize so.
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Zack Olinger: An aspect of the quality of the feminine is to express itself right, just to be seen and to be heard.
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Zack Olinger: And there’s a couple of times i’ve worked with men are they’re like i’m not sure I actually embody feminine qualities, you know, like that doesn’t that kind of feel a little alienated by it.
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Zack Olinger: And so I say, well, have you ever gotten angry, have you ever raised your voice, have you ever kind of like gotten animated you know, like maybe how did your fist on something like you’ve been you’ve been pissed off.
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Zack Olinger: And they’re like yeah i’m like the when you’re expressing that.
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Zack Olinger: that’s a feminine quality, because you want to be seen you want to be heard when we’re all angry when we’re upset when we get a little emotional about something, and we want to express that.
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Zack Olinger: that’s a feminine attribute that’s a feminine quality that’s feminine energy we’re expressing that we want to be seen, and we want to be heard.
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Zack Olinger: So the flip side of that the masculine energy is to be silent and calm and to create the container where the stage for that expression to take place without any judgment, without any.
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Zack Olinger: Like being moved by what’s being expressed and to create a safe place for that expression to take place.
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Zack Olinger: So a way that I like to give the imagery of this is like two different ways, one is like the sky right the sky sees clouds come and go there might be a calm day might be sunny day no clouds might be a very stormy day might be a hurricane.
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Zack Olinger: So the sky is the masculine energy it doesn’t have any judgment about what is witnessing it just contains the space for all of that to happen, the clouds can come, they can go.
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Zack Olinger: Whatever it may be in the in the storms, or the clouds and all of that expression is the feminine energy.
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Zack Olinger: or another way to view it is like the ocean where it’s maybe calm might be stormy whatever that’s the feminine expression in the world that contains like the boundaries of that ocean that contains the space for that to happen.
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Zack Olinger: ISM is an expression of the masculine energy So hopefully That gives you some some imagery to work with yeah.
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Steve Werner: yeah I think that’s I mean that is a pretty good description, so how does this apply to conflict.
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Zack Olinger: yeah.
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Steve Werner: How does this, because where do most I think what i’m gonna let you take that I have my ideas on it, but I want to be you’re the expert so let’s hear what you have to say.
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Zack Olinger: Alright, so the way the way that i’ve seen it and i’ve experienced this as well and i’ve seen it between other you know couples and things like that is.
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Zack Olinger: You know a lot of times what it looks like is say you’re having a conversation i’ve seen it with it fairly recently where the conversation was had.
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Zack Olinger: The male in the partnership with his with his wife said something that brought up an emotional response to the wife and so she.
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Zack Olinger: came back with it like an emotional response but it wasn’t an attacking thing, she was just expressing her.
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Zack Olinger: What he had brought up and it wasn’t anything antagonizing her it was just kind of like a.
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Zack Olinger: It was almost like a nonchalant conversation we’re just kinda like in passing be like oh hey so so and so is this event is happening and I got invited and whatever.
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Zack Olinger: And so the wife, you know, had this emotional response because it brought something up in her, and so, when she was expressing that.
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Zack Olinger: The husband felt attacked felt like it was that it was targeted by that emotional response, where that really wasn’t the case all she was doing is just expressing herself and like he happened to be the one present to witness that expression so.
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Zack Olinger: Again, no fault of his own but because he was not aware of what was happening, he had the normal response that I believe that we’re just kind of taught and and since we don’t have the awareness, we want naturally this way.
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Zack Olinger: Of like whoa hold on a minute like why, why is this, why are you why are you coming at me with this energy, you know and.
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Zack Olinger: That led to a couple of hours of like her being angry at him because he wasn’t containing he wasn’t providing the safe place he was reacting, he was reacting to that.
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Zack Olinger: So in this regard we’re having like two people in the feminine energy like where the wife wanted to respond, she wanted to be seen and heard because something came up and the.
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Zack Olinger: The husband also was responding because he was feeling attacked and so that we’ve got two people in their feminine energy clashing it’s like to storm clouds sitting together and it’s just creating a bigger fight.
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Zack Olinger: When it’s really unnecessary to do so, because now, this is a practice like you’re not gonna be able to just flip this on and off, but if you can become aware of these principles and in the try to be in the moment be like okay my.
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Zack Olinger: Partner just needs to express themselves like I needed just be observant and not respond Had he done that then she could have run through her expression.
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Zack Olinger: And then he would have had his turn to be able to respond, because, again we both engender these principles so each partner is going to be able to take turns being in their masculine and feminine.
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Zack Olinger: The wife can definitely step at her masculine and create the container for the husband to have his emotional response you just got to.
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Zack Olinger: Take turns doing so, otherwise if you’re both in the same principle or the same energy it just creates clashes.
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Zack Olinger: So that’s one example of of kind of what this looks like and and a way to reduce that conflict.
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Zack Olinger: is to understand the principles and play with them that way because she did mention later she’s like had he just it took them a couple of hours to come back and say.
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Zack Olinger: Oh, I see your point and like to calm himself down and just like acknowledge her and see her and she was like if he had just done that, from the beginning she’s like it would have just totally like wife, this whole thing out.
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Zack Olinger: and on my own podcast I had I interviewed a woman who has an annual conversation with her husband and she does all of these things, and then she has to have the conversation with a woman.
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Zack Olinger: And had her if her husband were to do these things.
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Zack Olinger: It would ultimately and resolve the conflict in and of itself and I don’t want to go on too long with that, but that’s another expression of masculine and feminine and I can I can dig in deeper on that particular example if you’d like but yeah.
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Steve Werner: Well, I want to go back what I.
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Steve Werner: don’t know if you guys can hear the siren that my condo is next to the hospital, so you hear that I apologize.
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Steve Werner: The um.
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Steve Werner: Okay, so what is.
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Steve Werner: You you talked about personal development, leading to this.
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Steve Werner: And I think what I what I hear you saying the underlying principle behind why that guy got mad was because he took it personally.
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Steve Werner: Right, he took what the wife was doing.
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Steve Werner: Personally, instead of realizing it’s just her expressing something.
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Steve Werner: And I just need like I just need to hang out and listen right, I mean is, is that is that, where what best practices, like, how does the guy.
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Steve Werner: Because like you can also hear other saying will she shouldn’t be saying that, because it is an attack and she’s saying it’s not at all So how do you win, how do you recommend that a guy in that situation.
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Steve Werner: defuse it and not take it personally, how do you have him look at it differently.
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Zack Olinger: yeah so um I would say that, like, I mean depending on the situation and what’s being spoken about like in this particular instance, like.
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Zack Olinger: It wasn’t it wasn’t an attack directed at him, it was about like it was just an flaring of the emotion of the situation, other it’s definitely going to be times, where.
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Zack Olinger: Things can happen and it’s going to be pointed and it will be like directed at that you as an individual i’ve had that experience as well.
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Zack Olinger: The principle remains the same, because, like really what.
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Zack Olinger: What they’re what the feminine.
00:15:48.450 –> 00:15:54.900
Zack Olinger: is really looking for is to be is to be safe, you know to be seen to be heard and to feel safe and all of that comes from.
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Zack Olinger: The masculine not not responding so, even if it is an attack and you’re taking in it feels personal.
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Zack Olinger: The best thing to do, honestly, is to just allow that to allow that to express itself it’s, not to say that you don’t feel it okay it’s, not to say that you just lay down and take it that’s not what i’m saying at all.
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Zack Olinger: i’m just saying, like in the moment you gotta let that storm play itself out and then from after that has done, then you can.
00:16:22.170 –> 00:16:28.080
Zack Olinger: have better evaluate like where you’re at you’ve let the full expression play itself out it’s kind of like when my kids asked me.
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Zack Olinger: Like we’re in like in the middle of a movie like what’s going on, or like i’m just like you’ve got to watch the whole film like a lot of your questions are going to be answered so sometimes as you’re.
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Zack Olinger: feeling something as the feminine is expressing itself like.
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Zack Olinger: Some of those answers are some of those attacks, some of those pricks that you’re feeling will be explained or you’ll come to an awareness as the expression is playing itself out and not not that it will not all the answers will come necessarily but.
00:16:51.840 –> 00:17:02.220
Zack Olinger: Let it run its course and then, once it’s happened then from that place, you can respond in a more effective manner, you know, like to me that’ll be like a.
00:17:02.580 –> 00:17:15.480
Zack Olinger: The the switching of the sides again, you know, like where, again, I think, really both people should to make it a balance easier way to play is if both people are aware of the principles going on in agree to be like.
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Zack Olinger: I held this space for us, so you could express that i’ve got a lot of things to say in response to that, now that it’s my turn I need you to hold the space for me and I.
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Zack Olinger: And I think that’s just a healthier way to have those conversations like you were speaking about earlier because you’re right you don’t want to just like sweep things under the rug.
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Zack Olinger: But to have like effective communication I believe these are definitely pieces, these principles are good pieces to have as part like this awareness is a good part of having those healthy conversations being able to switch the roles.
00:17:44.580 –> 00:17:58.080
Zack Olinger: But so to answer your question just just go ahead and ride the storm out, you know yeah and I know that’s it trust me that’s easier said than done i’ve been in that situation, even just recently and i’m going to tell you it’s it’s a practice.
00:17:59.310 –> 00:18:04.950
Steve Werner: Okay, so I want to, I have two things to say, but i’ll start with, I want to play the devil’s advocate a little bit because.
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Steve Werner: I think there are a lot of guys that would say there’s no way like it’s one thing if she’s expressing an emotion about something else, but when I get personally attacked.
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Steve Werner: Like there’s no way i’m laying that stand right like I mean this dude’s what do we do we fight like that’s our the masculine response is you threaten me now it’s on.
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Steve Werner: Right, like most guys aren’t gonna back.
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Steve Werner: Down i’m not saying right or wrong i’m just saying like instinctual.
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Steve Werner: that’s what’s going to happen right like we’re like you just attacked me what is, I want to know if you have a tactic to defuse that in the moment because I think I agree with you.
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Steve Werner: It doesn’t what I would say, is it doesn’t have to be I don’t have to attack back right now.
00:18:54.510 –> 00:19:02.850
Steve Werner: I can, I can understand that I need to hold the space for you, I need to let you get through what you’re going through, because all i’m going to do, throw more fuel on the fire.
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Steve Werner: And like we’re going to have those storm clouds fighting right that you’re talking about we’re just going to be going at it, which doesn’t doesn’t serve anyone, but I think guys, a lot of guys talking you’re like oh hell no like my ego like I am.
00:19:14.910 –> 00:19:25.680
Steve Werner: you’re not going to talk to me that way we’re not going to fight about this like you’re not going to call me names, how do you what what would be your words of advice to a guy that gets triggered that way.
00:19:26.700 –> 00:19:31.200
Zack Olinger: yeah The first thing is is definitely like.
00:19:32.730 –> 00:19:40.740
Zack Olinger: I don’t want anybody to think that they need to take like self abuse or be abused in any way so even like I said just recently i’ve had similar experiences like.
00:19:41.130 –> 00:19:50.760
Zack Olinger: With my own partner, even just last night, where there was a conversation that went sideways unexpectedly right so i’ve had and I didn’t wasn’t being directly attacked.
00:19:52.260 –> 00:19:59.040
Zack Olinger: But I also wasn’t being seen or heard and interpreted the way that I wanted to be so it’s similar in some regards so my thing is is.
00:19:59.760 –> 00:20:16.080
Zack Olinger: hold the space, while you can without responding you know and and without attacking back and then at some point if, like you’re it’s not really the future kind of at capacity, so to speak, then it’s quite alright to just be like you know.
00:20:18.390 –> 00:20:29.310
Zack Olinger: Like I gotta I gotta I gotta go like I got to the conversation we have to take like a break or pause or like I can’t i’m not available for this conversation right now and that’s okay on both sides, you know because.
00:20:29.700 –> 00:20:42.660
Zack Olinger: that’s just a form of like self care and, in my opinion, so like everybody’s going to know their limit, because at some point, you know, a levy could break and you’d be like look now i’m no longer able to maintain this space for United i’m going to respond.
00:20:43.950 –> 00:20:58.320
Zack Olinger: So I think there’s a level of that as well just having it be okay, you know that that’s a healthy thing to do in a relationship to be like look like we’re you’re charged and i’m allowing you to express yourself becoming really in charge, and like.
00:20:58.350 –> 00:21:06.450
Zack Olinger: I want to hold the space for you, but now I can’t and just I think just allowing that to be a respect thing and that that could be.
00:21:06.780 –> 00:21:12.420
Zack Olinger: That could be tenuous I can appreciate that because, like I said last night, like, I had to excuse myself in the conversation i’m like I am.
00:21:13.140 –> 00:21:21.570
Zack Olinger: i’m going to go, because this isn’t this isn’t serving either one of us, and then went to sleep came up the next morning left a message and.
00:21:22.350 –> 00:21:29.430
Zack Olinger: You know that kind of thing, where I was able to express like where I was at you know because I just wasn’t being received, you know, the way that I needed to.
00:21:30.300 –> 00:21:38.850
Zack Olinger: So it’s not going to be clean, you know necessarily like these things are going to be messy it’s just the awareness of the principles that are at play that I think will will help so.
00:21:39.390 –> 00:21:47.820
Zack Olinger: All of the feelings that people have are going to be completely valid on both sides i’m certainly not asking guys to be like to like not have their emotions come up or be like.
00:21:48.150 –> 00:21:53.850
Zack Olinger: What are you talking about why they, why are you attacking me and that’s not cool like that’s that’s Okay, you know i’m not saying that’s wrong.
00:21:54.480 –> 00:22:01.200
Zack Olinger: it’s just about trying to allow that space for the expression to happen hold it as best you can, and then, if you reached your limit.
00:22:01.950 –> 00:22:10.710
Zack Olinger: it’s okay to it’s okay to remove yourself until you can come back you know it’s kind of like when the bell rings in a ring you know you go back to your corners you come back you know.
00:22:12.690 –> 00:22:18.810
Steve Werner: Well Okay, so what I hear you saying is that it really comes down to effective communication.
00:22:19.170 –> 00:22:32.400
Steve Werner: And and some sympathy right like understand that the other person it nine times out of 10 I don’t think either person in a relationship wants to actually attack the other person.
00:22:33.030 –> 00:22:35.400
Steve Werner: They might feel something they might.
00:22:35.520 –> 00:22:43.380
Steve Werner: That we feel hurt or we feel threatened so then we some like, especially if you’re not practice at effective communication you lash out.
00:22:43.410 –> 00:22:49.920
Steve Werner: Right you’re not practice it like thinking through it and I can definitely appreciate that I think, women are more emotional than men.
00:22:50.610 –> 00:22:54.540
Steve Werner: And I think that’s part of feminine energy, which is not a bad thing, like I think that’s good, I think.
00:22:54.810 –> 00:23:08.160
Steve Werner: I think I think opposites attract in that were guys we’re good at, we want things calm, we want like the calm ocean, we want like a clear path to do something and like we focus on one thing right.
00:23:08.640 –> 00:23:12.780
Steve Werner: My sisters would always say that I boxes in my head i’m working on this box right now.
00:23:13.050 –> 00:23:17.280
Steve Werner: And that’s what’s happening and they’re like they.
00:23:18.540 –> 00:23:30.690
Steve Werner: growing up and, like most of them that i’ve dated like they have 9000 things going on in their head at once somehow guys can’t function that way, like most guys if we tried to do that, we just melt down into a pool and nothing would happen.
00:23:31.230 –> 00:23:41.220
Steve Werner: um and, but I think as part of that is, they have a lot more emotions like they’re running a lot hotter emotion wise right guys, we want no emotion, so that we can just get it done.
00:23:43.230 –> 00:24:01.590
Steve Werner: And having having those two sides play out in in relationships is it causes tension, but I think effective communication the I want to know if you have any tips that leads to the question, do you have any tips for effective communication of.
00:24:03.060 –> 00:24:11.550
Steve Werner: What do you do like if you’re if you’re the guy and the woman is being expressive right and you’re giving her that place, what can you do to help maybe.
00:24:12.060 –> 00:24:23.760
Steve Werner: move that along or help be supportive right because that’s really at the end of the day, a healthy relationship is i’m going to support you and you’re going to support me and together we’re going to be better than.
00:24:24.840 –> 00:24:27.090
Steve Werner: better than that we are single right.
00:24:27.240 –> 00:24:32.280
Steve Werner: we’re going to be better as a some So how do you how do you have any tips for that.
00:24:33.120 –> 00:24:44.850
Zack Olinger: yeah I think I think with with one of the biggest things you know just because, like we are guys and we do like to we have we see a problem, and we want to fix it, you know, like it’s the it’s the thing right.
00:24:46.320 –> 00:24:58.320
Zack Olinger: And so, with with this particular kind of thing with these types of principles, you know, and you can ask women they’ve talked about it before i’m sure i’m sure you’ve heard it as well, a lot of times women aren’t looking when they come to you with something or they come to their partner.
00:24:59.490 –> 00:25:00.750
Zack Olinger: they’re not looking for a solution.
00:25:00.990 –> 00:25:10.140
Zack Olinger: You know they’re not like hey i’ve got this problem and I need you to fix it so they’re not really looking for advice and most of the time when that happens that even kind of just pisses them off even more where it’s just kind of like you’re not.
00:25:10.530 –> 00:25:18.000
Zack Olinger: you’re not really seeing me and hearing me for a little while you’re just you’re trying to fix something and I didn’t even ask you for that so you’re just kind of giving unsolicited.
00:25:18.750 –> 00:25:23.310
Zack Olinger: advice when they’re really just looking for somebody to be the sounding board, they just want a space to like.
00:25:23.760 –> 00:25:32.040
Zack Olinger: feel seen and heard and to like feel safe to express that and then, once they once that expression plays itself out they’ll go along, and it may not even be a problem anymore, they just wanted to.
00:25:32.340 –> 00:25:39.660
Zack Olinger: they’ll go out and fix it or figure it out themselves, they just wanted to kind of have a stage to play the emotional rollout on.
00:25:40.050 –> 00:25:47.610
Zack Olinger: And once they’re done it’s kind of like all right i’m going to go and like fix my own shit because women are totally capable of doing that you know again they.
00:25:48.420 –> 00:26:02.400
Zack Olinger: Each embody these principles so women are fully capable of doing a lot of things, if not everything that a man can do, and vice versa we’ve we’ve shown that throughout different roles in society, so when it comes to just communication.
00:26:03.540 –> 00:26:09.570
Zack Olinger: One of the biggest tips is like don’t try to fix what your partners, bringing to you, unless you explicitly asks for that just.
00:26:09.900 –> 00:26:17.460
Zack Olinger: She just wants to be seen and heard you know that’s one of the biggest things, I think that that a lot of guys probably try to do because it’s so natural and I get that.
00:26:18.780 –> 00:26:24.870
Zack Olinger: But unless she actually asked for it, she probably just wants you to hold some space and see her and hear her you know.
00:26:25.560 –> 00:26:37.860
Steve Werner: that’s that is great advice and I and being a consultant I fix stuff all day long for everybody, and one of the things that served me very well in my dating relationships.
00:26:38.190 –> 00:26:51.300
Steve Werner: is to ask more questions and never give advice on so if somebody came to me like the last girl that I was in serious relationship with when she would come to me I just asked her more questions well how’d that make you feel.
00:26:51.870 –> 00:26:58.350
Steve Werner: What did it look like what did that feel like like and just keep asking some of that, and you like, I found for myself.
00:26:59.220 –> 00:27:02.460
Steve Werner: The biggest thing that I started telling myself, which I.
00:27:03.300 –> 00:27:12.030
Steve Werner: don’t think i’ve ever talked to anyone about this, but I was just like, how can I be more sympathetic, what do I need to understand that situation more and never nt.
00:27:12.390 –> 00:27:27.780
Steve Werner: Exactly your advice I would always say, do you want me to fix this or do you just want to talk about if you just want if she said just talk about it, then my goal my goal switches from she needs me to fix it to just ask her questions.
00:27:29.160 –> 00:27:35.880
Steve Werner: and be a really good listener, and that I think it is hard for guys because we don’t What do we want to do we want zero drama.
00:27:36.150 –> 00:27:48.750
Steve Werner: Zero like zero craziness and we want the problem fixed like that’s what we do in our own lives, all day long every day and to have and we’re like looking at them and we’re like holy crap do you know um do you know who Dr Barber is.
00:27:50.700 –> 00:27:51.870
Steve Werner: No more Mr nice guy.
00:27:52.140 –> 00:27:55.320
Zack Olinger: yeah I was gonna say yeah the name sounds familiar I haven’t read the book yeah.
00:27:55.980 –> 00:28:11.640
Steve Werner: Okay, so that book is um it’s really good is it’s based it’s it’s basically how to have effective communication and have healthy boundaries in a relationship if you’re listening to this you’re a dude and you want help in your relationship I would definitely recommend that book.
00:28:12.660 –> 00:28:20.250
Steve Werner: I want to lay out what he I was i’m part of a mastermind where he came and talked to five of us in a room and spent the whole day with us.
00:28:20.880 –> 00:28:29.640
Steve Werner: And one of the things played out, which I thought was really good, which I would love your thoughts on and we can kind of open up a little little discussion around it.
00:28:30.720 –> 00:28:31.440
Steve Werner: Was that.
00:28:32.550 –> 00:28:42.840
Steve Werner: Were guys want want like the calm peaceful water right like we want it, we want easy clear sailing women need the motion.
00:28:43.740 –> 00:28:53.070
Steve Werner: positive or negative, they need emotion in their life and if they’re not getting positive emotion, they will create negative emotion.
00:28:53.370 –> 00:29:00.240
Steve Werner: Not because they want to hurt you or they want negative emotion, just because they need something they need it going on, and if.
00:29:01.110 –> 00:29:08.100
Steve Werner: If they can’t get there if you’re not if you’re not bringing positive emotion to relationship they.
00:29:08.640 –> 00:29:20.280
Steve Werner: They will push buttons right i’ve heard it described as a shit test i’ve heard it described as a lot of different things, but they’ll push buttons because they’re just looking the emotional response to them lets them know that you care.
00:29:20.790 –> 00:29:28.110
Steve Werner: And that’s what they’re looking for and he’s like you have to your job in the relationship is to listen to them.
00:29:28.650 –> 00:29:31.440
Steve Werner: And to build positive emotion and if you’re not.
00:29:31.770 –> 00:29:40.980
Steve Werner: They will find negative emotion and if they can’t get that anywhere he’s like i’ve seen this happen so often in relationships, where the Dudes just check out there, like screw that i’m going to go over here.
00:29:41.280 –> 00:29:51.030
Steve Werner: If they can’t get positive emotion and if they can’t get negative emotion that’s when they become disengaged so you’ve i’ve seen he he laid out some really good examples where.
00:29:52.140 –> 00:29:58.680
Steve Werner: You saw the couple, and they would fight two or three times a week have like knock down drag out like like.
00:29:59.760 –> 00:30:12.060
Steve Werner: I don’t want to say violent like not violent, but like highly charged right screaming yelling like the emotional and they would be great they have great makeup sex and then they’d be amazing right.
00:30:12.240 –> 00:30:17.610
Steve Werner: Then you saw other relationships, where it was all about love and warm hearted feelings.
00:30:17.760 –> 00:30:25.770
Steve Werner: And that worked and then you saw the other ones where they checked out and he gave really good examples I would just love your your your thoughts on that I, this is your first time hearing it, so I don’t know what you.
00:30:26.700 –> 00:30:27.840
Steve Werner: If you have anything on it, but.
00:30:29.010 –> 00:30:45.420
Zack Olinger: yeah now I guess the thing that comes to mind through through that it through talking about that is that yet with the with the feminine way that I understand it, is that you’re pushing those buttons are like giving you giving the masculine those tests is to just.
00:30:46.680 –> 00:30:57.330
Zack Olinger: And this may seem really counterintuitive to a lot of guys are annoying even that’s like the beginning of like their their love and like because really what they’re looking for.
00:30:58.170 –> 00:31:03.600
Zack Olinger: Is that is that safety right they do want to feel you they want it, they want to have that response from you, not necessarily.
00:31:03.930 –> 00:31:08.790
Zack Olinger: A highly charged response or an emotional response from my understanding, but they want to know that your presence.
00:31:09.090 –> 00:31:18.180
Zack Olinger: They want to feel your presence and they want to feel that security, you know they want to, they want to know that they have that the that container they could go to her that stage to play out on.
00:31:19.320 –> 00:31:27.720
Zack Olinger: And, and that just makes them feel that makes them feel safe and once there once they feel that from you and they’re going to constantly test that because.
00:31:28.050 –> 00:31:35.010
Zack Olinger: they’re always going to want to feel that safety, you know they’re always gonna want to feel that that creates that polarity you know that open that openness from the feminine.
00:31:36.540 –> 00:31:40.170
Zack Olinger: Where if they can feel that presence from their partner.
00:31:41.400 –> 00:31:49.980
Zack Olinger: Then it just really allows them to to open up and and be themselves so like in the example of like the one that was highly emotional very charged and all of that.
00:31:50.370 –> 00:32:05.160
Zack Olinger: And they’d have great makeup sex to me that, like they have that container that allows this great emotional expression to play out and then because of that there’s this huge polarity that is created, and then it comes together in this hot in this passionate lovemaking you know.
00:32:06.180 –> 00:32:13.740
Zack Olinger: And then you’ve got the other example of like where it’s just about it’s a little bit more maybe balanced or less maybe low key you know not that they don’t have.
00:32:14.010 –> 00:32:22.530
Zack Olinger: Good love making but it’s not this massive expression of the principles that play and then you’ve got the other words way more neutral or checked out because it’s like.
00:32:22.860 –> 00:32:28.470
Zack Olinger: Because there is no polarity there isn’t a stage there isn’t any reciprocation there’s no there’s no energetic exchange happening.
00:32:29.340 –> 00:32:39.300
Zack Olinger: So the tests from the feminine that poke at the masculine and we can definitely view it as annoying but, once we understand the principles we can start to see it as a different form of play.
00:32:40.920 –> 00:32:55.260
Zack Olinger: and understand where it’s coming from and why it’s happening, then I think that allows us to like have a little bit more, it takes the sting out of the out of the experience you know takes the annoyance out of the experience in a way, because you understand why it’s happening.
00:32:56.580 –> 00:33:03.840
Zack Olinger: that’s the way I look at it and then part of that too, like to go back to the very passionate couple in there and they’re passionate lovemaking is that.
00:33:04.530 –> 00:33:14.220
Zack Olinger: When these principles are understood and use I don’t want to say, like music, as far as like a like a form of manipulation, but once they’re used in like just understood just.
00:33:14.490 –> 00:33:21.780
Zack Olinger: same as the principles of mathematics and physics, once these things are understood you can start to like implement them and, like use them constructively.
00:33:22.470 –> 00:33:27.510
Zack Olinger: what’s the real nice reciprocation for the male is that the feminine once she has that safety.
00:33:28.200 –> 00:33:33.030
Zack Olinger: and is able to express themselves and to be seen and heard and get the things that she needs from the masculine.
00:33:33.390 –> 00:33:40.320
Zack Olinger: she’s going to want to give herself to you and that’s why I lead with that you know less conflict more pleasure kind of a thing because.
00:33:40.830 –> 00:33:47.550
Zack Olinger: you’re going to get like some lovemaking that you haven’t ever had before once you’re able to provide that type of space for the feminine to happen and it’s not this.
00:33:47.940 –> 00:33:58.470
Zack Olinger: obligatory kind of sexual exchange, this is a genuine like you’ve given me what I want kind of a thing, and I want to give you like a piece of me and it’s a whole different kind of experience.
00:33:59.280 –> 00:34:06.060
Zack Olinger: And so it’s like this to me it’s like a it’s a perpetuating like engine like once you get it going like once you understand the principles, because.
00:34:06.510 –> 00:34:16.560
Zack Olinger: At least for me anyway once I received that I was like how do I get more of that like How else do I need to show up where else do I need to be like you know where else, so I can get some more of that because.
00:34:16.860 –> 00:34:23.490
Zack Olinger: that’s awesome that feels good so it’s like to me it’s like a it’s a self perpetuating engine once it gets going can be.
00:34:23.610 –> 00:34:24.270
Zack Olinger: yeah well.
00:34:24.930 –> 00:34:32.040
Steve Werner: I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I believe, like I do really believe that there’s like masculine and feminine.
00:34:32.640 –> 00:34:38.490
Steve Werner: And when you when you’re in that right like guys are going to be 80% masculine and 20% feminine.
00:34:38.880 –> 00:34:44.250
Steve Werner: On a baseline I know that things like things change your environment can cause it hormones like I get it.
00:34:44.460 –> 00:34:54.870
Steve Werner: But as a baseline like women, the same way, like they feel much better when they’re in their feminine i’ve talked to my sisters i’ve talked to other women that they have to be in their masculine all day at work right they go.
00:34:54.870 –> 00:35:02.310
Steve Werner: To a high level office job I deal with a lot of CEO type women that are running one of my clients has a $3 million business.
00:35:02.520 –> 00:35:17.340
Steve Werner: she’s a woman, she runs it, she has more than 500 employees like she’s she’s charging and she was like it All I want is a guy that I can come home and like not be in that right, and I feel like in a relationship to your point that you just made.
00:35:18.660 –> 00:35:30.180
Steve Werner: When in the relationship when the dude can be the male and the woman can be the female like something magic happens and that’s when a real relationship like on a on a subconscious.
00:35:30.960 –> 00:35:41.250
Steve Werner: Energetic level happens when when the guy knows that he can trust the woman and the woman knows that she can be herself and like be vulnerable and feel safe.
00:35:41.640 –> 00:35:54.750
Steve Werner: And the guy can actually like do we want to protect like that’s part of it is we want to protect, we want to provide that space we like whether we know it or not, we want to do that that’s in our DNA like core being.
00:35:54.990 –> 00:35:55.980
Steve Werner: And when that happens.
00:35:56.280 –> 00:36:08.220
Steve Werner: amazing relationship is there, I feel I don’t know I feel like society right now is done a little bit of an injustice by saying, like yes women can be like.
00:36:08.850 –> 00:36:21.960
Steve Werner: Women are equals to us 100% we are different, though, like that’s the thing like that that’s what makes relationships amazing at least this is my these are my thoughts I know that everybody shares them.
00:36:23.610 –> 00:36:31.230
Steve Werner: But I believe that’s what you’re saying like when you can give that space and you understand it like something magic happens.
00:36:31.800 –> 00:36:36.690
Zack Olinger: yeah absolutely yeah that’s um that’s a very good point for sure, and like.
00:36:37.110 –> 00:36:40.470
Zack Olinger: that’s that’s absolutely right on all the all accounts, because, like.
00:36:40.710 –> 00:36:51.840
Zack Olinger: Women are highly obviously highly capable and there’s tons of women out there, crushing it and doing things because a lot of them are going out there and doing things at the job like he said and I just interviewed a woman not too long ago.
00:36:52.590 –> 00:37:01.680
Zack Olinger: who gave a fantastic example of that where she’s doing all day at work, and she said, the exact same thing, she just wants to come home and totally not do that so.
00:37:01.980 –> 00:37:11.520
Zack Olinger: And the thing is, is that doing is a masculine expression like anytime you’re doing something that’s that’s masculine and being is a feminine expression that’s a totally different state, you know.
00:37:12.720 –> 00:37:20.310
Zack Olinger: And so, she was talking about how her husband would be like hey like how was your day at work and then she was like I don’t want to fucking talk about that because I was.
00:37:20.340 –> 00:37:22.260
Zack Olinger: Already at work all day you know she’s like.
00:37:22.620 –> 00:37:34.260
Zack Olinger: I was like so you want him to ask like how are you doing that, how was your day at work like what did you do at work he wants you want to connect with like, how are you and she’s like yeah exactly that, so they want to.
00:37:34.860 –> 00:37:40.230
Zack Olinger: The home is going to be the refuge like if you’ve got a partner that’s going out all day and working and they’re doing stuff.
00:37:41.040 –> 00:37:44.640
Zack Olinger: They want to come home and set that up put another coat hanger.
00:37:45.060 –> 00:37:54.240
Zack Olinger: And, just like unfurl now they’re done doing now, they just want to be, they just want to be and i’m not talking about being lazy okay that’s not what i’m talking about i’m just saying like they want to.
00:37:54.870 –> 00:38:00.540
Zack Olinger: have a lot of the things they just don’t want to have to worry about stuff you know, in the same way, you know.
00:38:00.900 –> 00:38:04.470
Steve Werner: Well, they want to embody emotion right What are they doing all day the.
00:38:04.800 –> 00:38:12.450
Steve Werner: My client all day long she’s like i’m in high power decisions and she she said i’m thinking like a dude that’s that’s the way she said she’s like.
00:38:12.720 –> 00:38:23.790
Steve Werner: I am like straight line like get this done get this done get this done check the boxes, make sure stuff done she’s like when I come home, I want to not have to worry about doing anything.
00:38:24.390 –> 00:38:35.850
Steve Werner: And I want to, I want to be able to be emotional, I want to be able to like have things not make sense, it was what she said, and I think it’s so true, I think.
00:38:36.750 –> 00:38:49.080
Steve Werner: I can also say this from a guy’s perspective because i’ve dated a few women that are that were very much in that right like and but they wanted to be that and they didn’t know how to be in a relationship anymore right they had lost like.
00:38:49.560 –> 00:38:52.920
Steve Werner: They wanted to do it, but at the same time they were like they wanted to.
00:38:53.820 –> 00:39:03.450
Steve Werner: To be more in their masculine right because they’ve we had a big discussion about this with the last girl that I dated because she was she was kind of in that, and she was like well if I if I.
00:39:04.170 –> 00:39:09.090
Steve Werner: Like if i’m going to be an integrated what she said, if i’m going to be an integrated woman.
00:39:09.750 –> 00:39:15.390
Steve Werner: I need to have both all the time, and I was like that’s like that’s unsexy like that’s not.
00:39:15.780 –> 00:39:24.300
Steve Werner: attractive to me at all and I it’s the same way I don’t think most women are attracted to like ultra feminine guy right.
00:39:24.660 –> 00:39:33.450
Steve Werner: Like because there’s no then they’re expressing all the time and then the woman has to do the here i’ll give you a space, one more time oh my God like this sucks.
00:39:34.140 –> 00:39:40.890
Steve Werner: um at least that’s my take on it, I don’t know we’re kind of run down some rabbit holes but they’re they’re interesting and.
00:39:41.550 –> 00:39:51.240
Steve Werner: I think they’re needed more than anything today to be really honest I mean it’s i’m single i’ve been dating now for the last like year and it’s been.
00:39:51.990 –> 00:40:01.140
Steve Werner: Some of the dates are really interesting because i’m just like man you guys like it it’s just weird to me how how far things have changed the last couple years.
00:40:02.040 –> 00:40:07.350
Zack Olinger: yeah I think I think that’s I think that’s true of both sides of the equation just understanding.
00:40:08.550 –> 00:40:19.830
Zack Olinger: Like you said, the principles like being both at the same time, all the time yeah there needs to be the polarization for that attraction to happen so one needs to be in one, and then the other needs to be in the other and that can shift, you know that’s that’s not a problem.
00:40:20.220 –> 00:40:29.790
Zack Olinger: But um but yeah just being in both at the same time, I think, is like untenable, you know, like you just gotta allow the.
00:40:30.330 –> 00:40:37.140
Zack Olinger: Being okay with yourself giving yourself the permission to just relax like to to allow them to allow the feminine to.
00:40:37.740 –> 00:40:50.910
Zack Olinger: surrender into that to unfurl into that and to have the space to do so, so there’s going to be the space has to be created and the trust has to be there, you know for the for the feminine to be able to do so, but yeah.
00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:51.720
Steve Werner: I mean, I guess.
00:40:52.890 –> 00:40:58.200
Steve Werner: I guess, I want to clarify, because I can hear someone like getting fired up and it’s like i’m not.
00:40:58.860 –> 00:41:13.530
Steve Werner: Women are 100% equal they can do everything that we can do for sure, I agree with that i’m just saying, like in I think Hollywood and some of the stuff in the media right now is saying like women should be more masculine.
00:41:15.120 –> 00:41:18.990
Steve Werner: That is where like I think they can be leaders and be feminine.
00:41:19.620 –> 00:41:27.660
Zack Olinger: Absolutely yeah for sure that’s the thing, like, I have a good example of this, as well as like how this how this works, because that’s absolutely true like.
00:41:28.410 –> 00:41:37.680
Zack Olinger: it’s, not to say that yeah it’s, not to say that women are incapable of the they can be both just not at the at the same time, necessarily so, like.
00:41:39.120 –> 00:41:49.410
Zack Olinger: Like in my partnership, just to give an example of how we both embody these energies and how it can flip like in an instant and happened without us even knowing, so I was having a conversation with a partner, a handful of weeks ago.
00:41:49.800 –> 00:41:57.690
Zack Olinger: Something was said to me, I got triggered and in the moment I wanted to say something so I just flipped I was holding space and then I started to allow myself to express.
00:41:57.930 –> 00:42:06.750
Zack Olinger: Thankfully, in the same moment my partner went into her masculine to hold give me space to express myself and then she called me back like in the consciousness after I was.
00:42:07.200 –> 00:42:12.540
Zack Olinger: After I was done expressing myself and got me back into my masculine and it wasn’t wasn’t until after the fact, where I was like.
00:42:12.930 –> 00:42:20.970
Zack Olinger: dang like I just went from masculine to feminine the masculine again at the span of like 10 minutes you know, like and I didn’t even know that happens so.
00:42:21.360 –> 00:42:28.080
Zack Olinger: These energies will there in every single moment they’re going to come and go, you know they’re going to be it’s very fluid so.
00:42:28.560 –> 00:42:36.810
Zack Olinger: In this in this regard, about like being able to like come home and just relax and to give the space for the feminine is is.
00:42:37.290 –> 00:42:44.850
Zack Olinger: Not to say that women can’t go out and do the things they need to do, or even do the things they need to do in the home, because they can do that there it’s just about.
00:42:45.900 –> 00:42:53.340
Zack Olinger: You know if they’re going to be doing it all day there needs to be a time because I feel like any way that my my partner is going to want that to happen, like.
00:42:53.820 –> 00:43:02.490
Zack Olinger: Dave that space for them to express themselves well put it another example with another woman that I interviewed with the one where she had this annual conversation with her husband right.
00:43:03.000 –> 00:43:06.930
Zack Olinger: As soon as I introduced the idea I was like what if your husband, what would your life look like if your husband.
00:43:07.110 –> 00:43:11.640
Zack Olinger: took care of that piece, and like did all of that stuff knew what you wanted to have considered.
00:43:12.120 –> 00:43:23.370
Zack Olinger: And took care of all of that, and she like in that interview like I could see her energy just kind of relax and she was like that would be awesome and I was like so if he were to do that again the male part doing.
00:43:23.640 –> 00:43:25.920
Zack Olinger: If he were to do that and then come to you with that plan.
00:43:26.760 –> 00:43:36.600
Zack Olinger: Would you even need to have the conversation she’s like no she’s like we would just check that box off i’d sign off on it and she’d be like that’d be great because then I could just go and be like with my family and all of that.
00:43:36.810 –> 00:43:41.070
Zack Olinger: So there was a couple pieces of language there the husband doing, which is the masculine piece.
00:43:41.370 –> 00:43:47.880
Zack Olinger: The conflict wouldn’t even would it would have been height totally removed because she’s like I would just sign off on it so there’s no more annual conversation.
00:43:48.270 –> 00:43:55.230
Zack Olinger: and her energy when she opened up was like I i’ve been asked her, I was like Emily I was like, if I were your husband i’d want to know where can I get.
00:43:55.590 –> 00:43:59.970
Zack Olinger: That you know, like because it was attractive, it was like yeah so that’s the.
00:44:00.450 –> 00:44:11.670
Zack Olinger: that’s what i’m talking about what those principles again it’s not that emily’s not capable she’s highly able to do those things but there’s things that can women do they don’t necessarily want to do, they would rather just be.
00:44:12.120 –> 00:44:13.170
Steve Werner: No well that’s.
00:44:15.240 –> 00:44:25.350
Steve Werner: I was thinking that when you were talking, I was like it’s not that they get they can do it, but do you want to like is that, where you find yourself wanting to be.
00:44:25.830 –> 00:44:26.340
00:44:27.960 –> 00:44:35.850
Steve Werner: zach this has been an awesome conversation we have covered a whole bunch of different things, we are linking your instagram and your YouTube.
00:44:36.060 –> 00:44:49.710
Steve Werner: underneath us if you guys want to get more of Zack if you want blue podcast all of that stuff is linked in the show notes, make sure you check that out that much for coming on anything you want to say before we check out.
00:44:50.340 –> 00:44:55.320
Zack Olinger: And just just want to say thanks everybody for for listening thanks for having me on the show Steve I really appreciate it man.
00:44:56.340 –> 00:45:03.690
Steve Werner: No problem, this was super fun to everybody else out there until next time take action change lives and make money we’ll see you soon.
00:45:07.230 –> 00:45:08.130
Steve Werner: All right, we’re good.