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Steve Werner: Welcome back to grow your impact income and influence the number one show helping you reach millions, my name is Steve Warner and I am your host today, we are going to be talking about the income.

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Steve Werner: But not just making more money we’re going to be talking about how you save more money we’re talking about everyone’s favorite subjects tax and tax strategy, but I have a rock star guest for you today tiffany phelps welcome to the show how are you doing today.

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Tiffany Phillips: i’m doing great how are you.

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Steve Werner: Good tiffany is my neighbor she lives over in Houston I live in Austin but we were talking that makes us neighbors in Texas.

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Steve Werner: yeah so.

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Tiffany Phillips: Yes, yes I think people don’t realize Texas is huge so to get to El paso was like 12 hours or something crazy.

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Steve Werner: It is It is crazy did you know that there is a ranch in Texas, that is bigger than the entire state of Rhode island.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah The funny The funny things about Texas right like we got a lot of things like that.

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Steve Werner: Nice well okay tiffany you weren’t always a rock star CPA I doubt you were like seven years old and you’re like.

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Tiffany Phillips: I did not come out of the way in the rock star that’s for sure.

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Steve Werner: So.

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Steve Werner: take us back to where this started for you, because I don’t I don’t know very many people that would say i’m passionate about taxes.

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Steve Werner: But you obviously are so take us back to where the started.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah so first off, and I am not so much passionate about taxes i’m passionate about helping people keep their money and I often say I am an entrepreneur, and I just happen to use tax as the vehicle to help people.

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Tiffany Phillips: And that it really is because most people don’t know what they don’t know and I realized that really growing up, so I come from an entrepreneurial household my dad was a home builder.

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Tiffany Phillips: And became a custom home builder around middle school and so he always be self employed and so.

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Tiffany Phillips: My grandfather owned a text station away that, when it was still Texaco and so i’ve had kind of this upbringing of.

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Tiffany Phillips: business owners and I always did little things growing up and make money, I always had some sort of a business.

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Tiffany Phillips: And, and it was just kind of bread in me when I graduated from college, I even then was just looking for something to do I knew I wanted to work for myself and so i’m out of college I.

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Tiffany Phillips: started in corporate and doing tax and then doing controllership and manufacturing all these things and kind of got sick of it and then got into doing taxes myself.

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Tiffany Phillips: I was your typical CPA right out the gate was not doing anything fancy was really just doing what most to gaze do prepare taxes and maybe do some accounting.

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Tiffany Phillips: And it’s probably been about four years ago now, when I was at a mastermind event with other accountants and CPA.

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Tiffany Phillips: And there were a couple of them saying hey like i’m saving my client all this money and I had a couple of side conversations with them.

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Tiffany Phillips: And said hey how are you doing this, how How does this work, and it was enough information that I took the ball and ran with it my dad was actually my first kind of guinea pig.

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Tiffany Phillips: On saving him any taxes and from there, it just became really the thing that I do and now on average about $97,000 per client.

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Tiffany Phillips: Nice.

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Tiffany Phillips: that’s awesome yeah.

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Steve Werner: So I want to start back at the beginning, because you got to tell us what was the first business idea when you were like eight 910 that you launch What was it.

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Tiffany Phillips: I made jewelry.

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Steve Werner: Do you sell it door to door.

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Tiffany Phillips: I didn’t I actually had just from people that we knew I had regular customers, I remember, specifically at my optometrist office lady that did like the classes you’re going to send it she 6am whatever she was my best client and best customer.

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Tiffany Phillips: crazy they got that people from church and different people that we knew and I had regular customers, for I will i’ll probably a couple years.

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Steve Werner: I love it that’s like every all the entrepreneurs, not all of them, but most of them.

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Steve Werner: That i’ve talked to have something in their childhood, where they were like i’m going to go sell stuff and they made something it wasn’t just a lemonade stand it was like next level.

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Steve Werner: Right so that’s pretty sweet so then okay fast forward you go through college or like I wanted to do something, but I don’t know so you end up in corporate how bad did that suck.

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Tiffany Phillips: It suck.

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Tiffany Phillips: pretty bad and I think I feel like.

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Tiffany Phillips: Most entrepreneurs.

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Tiffany Phillips: will get it when I say this because it sounds really coffee but it’s not really intended that way.

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Tiffany Phillips: You get to the point where you feel like I know as much or more than you do about what’s going on around here, surely, I can do this, too, it can’t be that hard and.

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Tiffany Phillips: Then you become an entrepreneur, and you get knocked down a few notches ever realized so much more that you have no, you have no idea so yeah it.

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Tiffany Phillips: Was it was.

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Tiffany Phillips: Not a really fun, but you know i’m thankful for it, there were multiple times I actually attempted to go out on my own over the years and it just didn’t work because frankly I wasn’t ready yet and i’m thankful for that experience, because I needed it to get to where I am now.

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Steve Werner: I mean that’s so my hat is off to you like that’s um.

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Steve Werner: First off being corporate we’ve all been there right like I know I can do this, I know I can do this better i’m going to go do it that’s like the first thing like I think all entrepreneurs 100% have that happen sometime but then we also have.

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Steve Werner: I wouldn’t like one of my mentors called it entrepreneur scars he was like until you’ve got a bunch of scars from going out and trying different things he’s like they’re not failures they’re not even like they’re not failures in the fact that, like you failed at them.

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Steve Werner: They were learning experiences like you have to go through those.

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Steve Werner: And nobody just goes out and knocks it out of the park right away like you have to learn right like I had all.

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Steve Werner: kinds of side hustlers.

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Steve Werner: Throughout the early 2000s before I found my stride, and so I mean awesome for you, for getting there now, I want to talk about.

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Steve Werner: How did you talk to your dad into letting him, be the guinea pig because i’m it’s everybody’s heard somebody come up to him and be like dude I can save you so much money.

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Steve Werner: And, like the first thing that I think of when i’m like I i’m you’re not touching my finances, so how did you get your dad to lean in first off what was his business.

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Tiffany Phillips: So he is a customer handler and.

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Tiffany Phillips: Pretty small shop, you know they don’t have typically more than a couple jobs going in on time so he’s not this huge builder.

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Tiffany Phillips: And and really he he it’s always been like feast or famine, with his business either he had a lot going on, or it’s like we have no jobs, I need to get some bids out and we need to drum it up to get this thing rolling and so.

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Tiffany Phillips: And I saw throughout my whole life, the roller coaster that he and my mom road where there really wasn’t consistent income coming in and then.

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Tiffany Phillips: You know, come tax time you know when you’re in the same House you hear things, even though you don’t really realize what they’re necessarily talking about, but I knew, especially as I got older come tax time they were having to come up with how much money and.

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Tiffany Phillips: trying to figure out where they were going to get the money, because at that point, they were living on the money that they had made and had spent even what should have been set aside for taxes, because they were trying to survive.

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Tiffany Phillips: Right, so I I knew that very intimately and at this point, I think that was already helping prepare his return I think i’ve probably had.

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Tiffany Phillips: had done it maybe one year, because even initial like you know for years i’ve been able to do taxes, but he had.

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Tiffany Phillips: His CPA I really didn’t want to do his stuff he had this person and, but there is one year, in particular, where it was just it was always and.

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Tiffany Phillips: He and my mom are having a conversation and I knew I was truly familiar with, because not only had I see them happen over the years, I had plenty of clients that had the same conversation is going.

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Tiffany Phillips: Or am I going to kind of this money, and I said, well, what do you think about this i’m like there’s a couple things that I know we can do to make this better, let me explain them to you, and he said, if you think that’s what we need to do that let’s do it.

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Tiffany Phillips: Okay, so we ran with it, and I mean it has saved them thousands of dollars that, because then that particular year they had had a really good years probably their banner year.

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Tiffany Phillips: You know, from the very beginning and, and so I think the sticker shock that he had on wow, this is what i’m going to pay if we don’t make a change was a map for him to.

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Tiffany Phillips: say we need to do something that you know I think a lot of people are that way, especially new business owners, when you go from.

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Tiffany Phillips: If you oh it’s a tiny bit you know, every year, or you get money back to no one else’s send it in money for you you’re you’re gonna oh if you’re doing well and you’re profitable and you will pay money in, and the first year that you do really well.

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Tiffany Phillips: it’s kind of painful doesn’t doesn’t really feel that great and so when you when you experience that, year after year, and you recognize hey there’s gotta be something.

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Tiffany Phillips: That we can do, and the natural question is my CPA doing enough doing really what.

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Tiffany Phillips: I want them to do to reduce this, and the answer is most of the time, not every time, most of the time if they’re just not and simply because we’re talking about really specialized.

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Tiffany Phillips: niche knowledge that takes a lot of time, energy and effort to figure out, which is why the Nice CPA stop doing it.

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Steve Werner: Well that’s I think that’s correct most people I know well, first off if you’re listening to this and you’re like you just like wipe the sweat off your forehead because you were like i’m not the only one who doesn’t pay my taxes or doesn’t set aside money.

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Steve Werner: Like i’ve had.

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Steve Werner: i’ve had great years where I didn’t set aside enough i’ve had horrible years where I didn’t set aside any the roller coaster that you’re talking about is true, I mean I, my first business that was full time was 2001.

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Steve Werner: And I didn’t set aside enough that first year and then I had to go sell a bunch of stuff I had to go drum up business been pretty good about it.

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Steve Werner: But i’ve definitely had years where I was a little short or I figured it wrong.

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Steve Werner: But the I think that’s the first like when I found out I shared with a mastermind that I was part of the 25 of us and I shared that.

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Steve Werner: I didn’t have enough set aside and they were like How much are you short and I think I was short like seven grand a year seminary like not quite 10 and one guy was like oh i’m short like 60,000 and that that’s like.

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Steve Werner: When I was like like.

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Steve Werner: Really, and then somebody else was like the same they were like oh i’m short like 25 I haven’t paid one one lady was like I haven’t paid my taxes in four years i’ll i’ll get there.

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Steve Werner: I was just like Oh, my goodness.

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Tiffany Phillips: Okay, I feel.

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Steve Werner: A way different right so that’s, the first thing the second thing is CPA is this is what I found in my own, and we can discuss this, because i’d love to hear the inside scoop i’ve had.

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Steve Werner: In the last 10 years I think i’ve had six different people do my taxes CPA is their job and the way they see their job description is my job is to prepare your taxes.

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Steve Werner: They don’t see it as my job is to save you money they see it as and that you’re one of.

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Steve Werner: I mean the smallest from my work with worked with I think they had maybe maybe 2025 and it was a single CPA and she did their taxes, and that was.

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Steve Werner: She had like an assistant right, it was her assistant, some of the other ones I worked with they have 20 people in the office, but their job is still just to prepare your taxes it’s not to save your money.

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Steve Werner: Because they don’t.

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Steve Werner: that’s not how they think about it, I think the world would be better if they thought about it as like, how can I learn a little bit more figure out how to save you money and then help you do it.

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Steve Werner: that’s not.

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Steve Werner: Why is that, why do you think that that challenge exists.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah and you’re right that’s exactly that’s, the issue is that they’re really focused on what we call in the accounting language is compliance it’s following the law, you know checking the box.

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Tiffany Phillips: They are asking me to do a tax return, I have to pay this tax return, and then I have to pay them this tax okay check we’re done.

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Tiffany Phillips: And the issue is that when it so there’s you know thousands like may not quite 100,000 or whatever, but let’s just say 100,000 tax loss.

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Tiffany Phillips: there’s a time and it’s ever evolving ever changing someone asked me recently So do I need to do, tax planning every year or do I do once or how does this work.

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Tiffany Phillips: So well let’s think about it, and you know we’ve got a new administration and they’re talking about doing some tax changes and.

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Tiffany Phillips: And i’m guessing the thing will they’re going to have to our debt is growing to significantly.

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Tiffany Phillips: And so, if that happens that’s huge, which means that would be to fit up to do tax planning, if you look back with all the coded stuff get tons of coverage early they did multiple different tax law packages.

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Tiffany Phillips: That impacted people, and that was huge then before that we had all the tax cuts and jobs X which.

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Tiffany Phillips: That was huge so just in the last what is that four or five years we’ve had you know lots of different things and that’s not including if there’s adjustments, with a demonstration and.

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Tiffany Phillips: it’s a lot to keep up with that stuff It really is so just understanding the wall, then understanding the changes it’s become then.

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Tiffany Phillips: figuring out the best way to implement these things once you understand them, because that’s the whole thing then you have to know how to implement it and then you have to like.

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Tiffany Phillips: Create it for your clients, based on their situation it’s an undertaking and most people.

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Tiffany Phillips: Just are happy with preparing return because it’s comfortable and they know how to do it.

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Tiffany Phillips: And their their clients are complaining, so why reinvent the wheel and it’s really it’s sad because it is a disservice to your clients, but.

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Tiffany Phillips: A lot of them either don’t really understand that the impact they can have an appliance or and they just are scared a lot of a lot of ca’s are terrified of the irs so.

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Tiffany Phillips: When you start talking about tax reduction their immediate thought they go into this fearful oh my gosh either my clients are going to get audited or i’m going to get in trouble as a practitioner.

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Tiffany Phillips: and have my license yanked when in reality the irs does not tell you, you have to pay more tax than what is like what you really go, they just say you need to pay the right keywords really do and so it’s our job as CPA is to figure out what that right amount it.

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Steve Werner: looks.

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Tiffany Phillips: Good on every page.

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Steve Werner: I think it’s, it is a fear based thing, though, because I think.

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Steve Werner: If you hear the irs like.

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Steve Werner: The irs is going to look at that, well then let’s just do something else right like i’ve heard that all across the board.

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Steve Werner: So okay.

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Steve Werner: If people are listening to this and they’re like Okay, how do I save money, how do I know if my CPA is actually doing a good job, they said that they’ve done some things to save me money because I.

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Steve Werner: Everyone has told me that one year, I had three different firms do my taxes to see what the numbers were they came back all three of them are different by two of them were off by like quite a bit.

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Steve Werner: More than more than 10 K, so I would love to hear like what is something that every every CPA says oh we’re doing tax strategy what is something that you can like put your finger on be like.

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Steve Werner: Look at this because if they’re not doing X it’s probably bullshit they’re probably saying what you want to hear.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah so couple things um the typical thing that I see not that it’s necessarily wrong that is very surface level, so if someone fear CPA like okay it’s.

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Tiffany Phillips: The fourth quarter it’s time to have a conversation with my CPA or it’s like December 1 let’s do it.

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Tiffany Phillips: And the CPA says Okay, you need to go buy anything will buy some new equipment.

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Tiffany Phillips: and hold off on the positive these checks if you’re going to be checks and we’re in a different era now and and push out pay, you know or pull in pain your vendors.

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Tiffany Phillips: And That to me is like that’s your only idea I but that’s all we’re talking about here, not that that’s bad per se.

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Tiffany Phillips: You can only spend so much money every year to reduce your taxes in really i’m not an advocate of what spend money to save money.

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Tiffany Phillips: And if you cannot get a return on your investment, then, is pretty quick, then you really shouldn’t be spending that money and so that’s a huge red flag, if that is what your CPA is bringing to you is their advice that tax savings.

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Tiffany Phillips: And you’ve got someone who really doesn’t understand the tax law and sometimes they’ll go a little bit further than that, so you should be an escort again.

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Tiffany Phillips: that’s great you definitely can save money, doing that that’s a wonderful thing to do.

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Tiffany Phillips: But if they’re only saying hey let’s be an escort and then let’s figure out your reasonable compensation and get as low as possible that also is very surface level type stuff.

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Tiffany Phillips: If they’re not recommending like significant strategies and if they’re not looking at you know.

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Tiffany Phillips: Things like that that’s the loophole or how do we shift income and pay your children with zero tax because there are ways, you can do that i’m not talking about like in your score for your partnership i’m talking about.

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Tiffany Phillips: Using things like family management llc to do that, where they pay no tax.

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Tiffany Phillips: If they’re not looking at things like captive insurance and cash balance plans, and you know.

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Tiffany Phillips: Increasing your your wealth, you know really looking at a very holistic Allah we improve and increase your wealth overall.

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Tiffany Phillips: And they’re not they’re not doing much, and when I do a tax plan for a client they actually get a full blown report here are the strategies.

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Tiffany Phillips: here’s how much they’re going to save you this is, if you implement all of these, then this is your total savings.

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Tiffany Phillips: This is how much you’ll save this year, this is how much you’re saving next year and it’s they know it’s very clear, so if you aren’t very clear then you’re not you’re getting either superficial type stuff and they’re not saving any money at all.

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Steve Werner: Okay that’s awesome I mean that is really good information, because I think everybody has heard every year, no matter who I use for my taxes in December, I definitely get the call you should spend.

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Steve Werner: X number of dollars this month because, if not you’re just going to pay a huge amount of tax on it, the one this year, she was like basically she’s like look at anything that you spend right now is getting a 35%.

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Steve Werner: discount on it, and I was like i’ve heard that kind of stuff before Okay, and I know that makes sense, on.

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Steve Werner: The next question I have for you, if somebody’s listening to this and they’re like okay This all sounds really good but I only made.

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Steve Werner: 50,000 or 75,000 this year, or maybe 150,000, what do you think the threshold is where your strategy start to show a positive return, because I know that your services.

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Steve Werner: are free.

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Tiffany Phillips: Sir sure, so one of the things that we do when someone is interested at least finding out, am I overpainting and tax, which you know side note if you’re profitable and business route like.

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Steve Werner: You just.

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Tiffany Phillips: If you’re making money you’re paying too much I can just tell you that much.

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Tiffany Phillips: And, but we got through and do a full blown discovery call to where we can understand, like.

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Tiffany Phillips: What the business, you have you have multiple businesses, however, they said that How much money do you make, how many employees do you have how many kids do you have.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah we go through it’s literally like going to the doctor, for the first time we get enough full blown workout to like blood we’re let’s do your blood pressure height weight, you know, whatever shoe size and.

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Tiffany Phillips: We look at that to determine, can we help you.

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Tiffany Phillips: And doesn’t make sense if you’re going to pay us money you need to come out ahead, you know we always want our clients to be the winner, you know we want you to actually come out well ahead beyond us.

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Tiffany Phillips: But typically what I see is you know total taxable income is usually going to be at least 150 maybe 200 not that you can’t save money, before then, but it doesn’t always make sense to pay us to do that when a tax savings, or it could be, you know, comparable to rp basically.

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Steve Werner: got it okay that’s a very fair answer and I appreciate you being straightforward with it because other people that i’ve had on have definitely dodge that question.

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um.

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Tiffany Phillips: The other thing is that not only is their profitability and I we’ve been talking about business owners and I know that is very much your audience.

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Tiffany Phillips: But that I want to be really clear.

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Tiffany Phillips: That is the catalyst for saving money making like having a profit and being a business owner, the irs and they.

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Tiffany Phillips: Literally write the tax code to businesses so that businesses can save money will get really upset about that well you know why, why are they the blue save money it’s like i’m sorry I don’t write the tax laws that’s.

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Tiffany Phillips: How it is, and you have to have a business, you have to have that Shell in order to use code to reduce your taxes.

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Steve Werner: So okay you just touched on something huge This could be a whole nother podcast i’m just gonna really quick first off most of the listeners here are business owners, if you are not a business owner, if you are not set up.

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Steve Werner: As a corporation right now at least an llc and a sole proprietorship, then you can file as an s corp you can do a lot of things, if you are not set up as that.

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Steve Werner: I beg you please go do it if you are an employee that is somehow listening to this podcast What would you say i’ve had this conversation.

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Steve Werner: I tell people go to any kind of mlm go do any kind of business, so that you can have a business entity.

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Steve Werner: I did this when I worked in restaurants, I had a business entity and it saved me so much on my taxes, and I would tell people I tell people I worked with and they’d all be like that’s too difficult that’s too much work I don’t know how to do that, like you’re.

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Steve Werner: it’s free money the code is to your point I like I get worked up because people are like I hate that I hate the government I blah blah blah it’s like you you’re being a victim right now.

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Steve Werner: Instead, the laws are written for a reason, if you know that gravity exists and you jump off a building and die you’re dumb The same thing applies to tax code, if you know the rules are there, and you can use them for your benefit.

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Steve Werner: Why wouldn’t you so what is the easiest way if somebody is listening to this and they’re like an employee, what is the easiest way for them to go, set up a business Shell that will actually save them money.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah definitely to your point, you can just be a sole proprietor which means you just establish a bba with your county.

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Tiffany Phillips: and go to the races you’re good, and I would definitely say mlm direct sales is probably the easiest way to have some sort of side hustle.

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Tiffany Phillips: You know, some people have bad taste in their mouth for direct sales, I actually even when I was in corporate I always had something going on, and I did direct sales for a few years.

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Tiffany Phillips: And to your point, you know it was great because it created tax savings, even though I was an employee.

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Tiffany Phillips: And Aside from that, I would say there’s just so many different ways and the world that we live in, and like there is a surface out there and I cannot think of what it’s called now and.

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Tiffany Phillips: If I know we were going to talk about this aspect I would have googled it before I jumped on with you, there is a service company that they list your House, if you have a pool is kind of like and.

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Tiffany Phillips: Oh here, he thinks I need to talk.

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Steve Werner: For pools yeah I know exactly what you’re talking about.

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Tiffany Phillips: And so you have a pool and like we have a nice backyard and i’ve even thought about running it on this place i’m like whoa why, why not make some extra money right.

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Tiffany Phillips: And there’s that I think there’s even companies now that you can rent your beautiful and yeah and so there’s different things like that that you can do there’s instacart there’s you know people live in groceries I don’t I think that their contractors as well.

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Tiffany Phillips: they’re literally the sky’s the limit the only reason you wouldn’t be able to come up with something is because you don’t want to.

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Steve Werner: that’s you you just hit the nail on the head perfectly.

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Steve Werner: If you do not have a business in today’s day and age, regardless of being an employee or not you it is on you.

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Steve Werner: It is because you don’t want to do it and it’s.

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Steve Werner: If you’re like well, but I don’t want to deliver groceries or I don’t want to rip my car out right.

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Steve Werner: here’s what I want you to hear like I know somebody who did this with Taro specifically for the tax benefits they rented their car to a family member through Taro so that they could write off a portion of their car payment their insurance their Internet and a Home Office.

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Steve Werner: resulting in thousands of dollars in savings with no penalty like.

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Steve Werner: Yes, it takes a few hoops to jump through.

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Steve Werner: It would you rather if the average employee in America is making $25 an hour, which I think is probably high, but we’ll say 25 for the sake of argument.

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Steve Werner: And you could go do this and save five grand is it worth how many hours is that if you’re making $25 it’s four to 100 that would be 42 1000 is that worth 160 hours to you to go set this up and do it.

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Steve Werner: Probably spending 10 hours to make 160 hours worth of income.

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Tiffany Phillips: Exactly because the reality is there’s a lot of this kind of stuff it really doesn’t take a lot of time.

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Tiffany Phillips: And what are you doing in that time you’re watching TV or scrolling social media which none of those things are necessarily bad and I scroll just like next person.

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Tiffany Phillips: But if you can leverage a little bit of your time and every week to do something, it really can add a mean.

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Tiffany Phillips: I know people that started their businesses, they were in marketing for years and it’s trying to do websites for people social media management and others.

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Tiffany Phillips: You know, using instagram tick tock I mean seriously it’s why these people are on tick tock tick tick tock killing it.

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Tiffany Phillips: And with great little side hustle dancing in a video, and then they have a little link tree or something in their their profile that again affiliate commissions affiliates that’s another one affiliate commissions so.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah there’s so many so many ways, if I had to start over and do something entirely different honestly, it would be hard to choose what do you do.

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Steve Werner: It would be all right, that is not the point of the podcast the point of the podcast is talk about taxes saving money tiffany if people want to learn more about you where can they go to get a free assessment.

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Tiffany Phillips: yeah so the best thing to do is on my website www tiffany Phillips cpa.com and there is a link and it’ll take you to a booking calendar it’s super easy.

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Tiffany Phillips: Like I said we’ll go through and do a free discovery call and we’ll figure out if it makes sense to work together, and if we can’t help you will tell you, and if we can then you’ll know by the end of that call how much you could be saving.

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Steve Werner: Perfect that is linked in the description down below.

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Steve Werner: completely free call you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by having a professional look at your taxes.

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Steve Werner: tell you what they could save or what they couldn’t save and you heard it from her directly.

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Steve Werner: If they can’t help you they’re not going to sell you anything they’ll tell you that they’re going to be honest with you up front tiffany I wanted to say thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing so much of your knowledge is super fun, even though we’re talking about tax.

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Tiffany Phillips: Thank you, I appreciate it.

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Steve Werner: No problem to everybody else out there until next time take action change lives and make money we’ll see you soon.