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Steve Werner: What is going on everyone welcome back to grow your impact income and influence the number one show for reaching millions of people helping you grow your brand.

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Steve Werner: Today we are talking about something really exciting and it is how to do content marketing through email, if you have an email list and you’re like nobody reads my emails nobody’s opening anything.

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Steve Werner: it’s not because email isn’t working it’s because nobody you’re not putting anything out that people want to read I get over a 20% email open rate.

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Steve Werner: i’m not going to share what I do, though, instead, I am going to give it to our guest rob rob welcome to the show how are you today.

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Rob Fortier: Steve i’m doing great, and thank you so much for having me today.

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Steve Werner: No problem I am super excited this is so, I love email it’s one of the biggest things that I do to reach people i’ve done hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of sales.

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Steve Werner: Through email people always asked me they’re like What do you mean, how are you getting 20% open rates, how are you getting such good click through and i’m like because I write an email, most people, though.

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Steve Werner: We my experience right like I look at my email box right now i’ve got stuff and it’s all like by this by this thing over here here’s what we’ve got for sale or even worse here’s my newsletter.

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Steve Werner: Oh, I know you focus.

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Steve Werner: on helping people, specifically with content and one of the biggest things is well I don’t know what to write about I don’t know what to put in my email so tell me how this all started for you, because there’s got to be a good story behind it.

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Rob Fortier: Sure, so you know I have had many careers in my life from theater to working in the box office to.

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Rob Fortier: working at starbucks to having my own greeting card company so they’re all the businesses i’ve worked for a run before.

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Rob Fortier: I have learned that one of the most important things you can do as a business owner is show up in your marketing.

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Rob Fortier: So I was doing a lot of social media for people and I was having a little bit of fun with that with one client because she just let me do whatever I want so that was great.

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Rob Fortier: The other clients they started making demands on me and i’m like this isn’t so much fun anymore so.

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Rob Fortier: I saw that they still needed to be out there, but I realized, a lot of folks that I had been working with.

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Rob Fortier: weren’t really using their email inbox for anything you know a lot of people, especially in the coaching world or if your consultant or some kind of solo printer.

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Rob Fortier: you’re pushed to build a list build the list build those phyllis it’s so important.

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Rob Fortier: But so many people don’t know what to do with it, as you said, except for like buy my stuff by my stuff and nobody really wants to read that constantly.

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Rob Fortier: So I saw that you know people can I will take questions out there about like Okay, what are you guys struggling with people always come back with.

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Rob Fortier: email I don’t know what to put in my emails I don’t know when to send them I don’t know what to write I don’t know how long they should be, and I giggled when you said newsletter because.

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Rob Fortier: That is such a thing that people are stuck on a bit you know back in the day when email was new you know, we were all excited about like I got an email today, and we would get newsletters from people.

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Rob Fortier: Nobody wants to read that stuff anymore, it is so i’m all about the short sweet and tighten up but that’s a mental block.

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Rob Fortier: For a lot of folks they think that an email has to take them forever to write and it has to be chock full of everything they can think of, and 17 points.

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Rob Fortier: And really it’s about putting out value and something that’s consumable in a very short period of time, those are the kinds of emails that get read by people.

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Steve Werner: 100% I mean what I always tell people is i’m holding up my phone right now, your email gets read on a phone a phone screen fits somewhere between 50 and 100 words depending on you know what they’re using to read it, or what you wrote it in.

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Steve Werner: If it’s much longer than that they’re not going to read it, we are now we consume stuff when email started.

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Steve Werner: You know 25 years ago you, you did you I love getting I remember the servers in college like it’d be like super like it didn’t it was like AOL.

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Steve Werner: ish yeah for it yeah well even like.

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Steve Werner: Oh, my goodness, I got this email, and all this stuff going around the chain letters I got I don’t know I probably got like 80 letters from Bill Gates testing out stuff for Microsoft, I was supposed to win a million dollars.

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Steve Werner: But like.

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Steve Werner: Nowadays we’re used to reading as a text message, which is you know, maybe 20 words if it’s much longer than that we’re not even reading the text message right.

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Rob Fortier: No, no.

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Steve Werner: So beyond making it a little bit shorter and a little bit sweeter we’ll get into tricks to tighten it up what should they use for content, because this is.

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Steve Werner: If you have a newsletter unquote newsletter right there’s blocks right you’re talking about what you did you’re talking about a marketing thing.

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Steve Werner: you’re talking about something else, like there’s like five or six different stories in there if they’re even stories there’s five or six different topics will call.

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Steve Werner: How do you move from that to just doing an email.

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Rob Fortier: it’s probably scary for some people to reduce that amount of content, but if you’ve got something like that that’s got five or six points.

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Rob Fortier: it’s all about pulling out the value for people, you know building an email list and then talking to those folks you’re building a relationship with.

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Rob Fortier: Your potential clients or your clients or whoever’s reading this they may never meet you in person, they may or may not work with you on a one on one basis, so this is your chance.

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Rob Fortier: To give them something that they can use if there is value in it it’s teaching it’s a resource it’s inspiring it’s entertaining.

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Rob Fortier: And they’re going to want to open your emails because they know there’s something in it for them.

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Rob Fortier: So I was talking about think of it like a conversation with people you don’t have to the language doesn’t have to be super formal.

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Rob Fortier: It doesn’t have to be talking about a million things going to be like you know hey friends, this week, I had this experience I learned X y&z from it.

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Rob Fortier: Have you ever struggled with this tell me about it, I love to help you out that could be a whole email right there because.

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Rob Fortier: you’re having a conversation and you’re encouraging interaction and building that relationship, but those folks so it’s all about taking all the things that you know and just picking one of them and focusing on that every time you send out an email.

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Steve Werner: Well that’s I mean that is really good advice I can hear some of the questions in the listeners heads right there like.

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Steve Werner: But I do put what’s in it for them, I know how to solve their problem and just have to buy my thing and what you are saying and what I want anyone who says that to think of.

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Steve Werner: Do you want to open an email where it’s like buy a shovel I have a great shovel you need to buy it, even if I need a hole i’m probably not going to buy your shovel but if, instead, you make it entertaining when you say what’s in it for them.

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Steve Werner: People at their core 99% of people want to be entertained and they want, if you make them laugh if you make them feel an emotion, if you tell them something that makes their life better right like, why do we like watching mindless TV seinfeld friends.

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Steve Werner: cheers back in the day, because it took us out of our life for a second and showed us that there was something dinner dinner something better, more entertaining.

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Steve Werner: Like something that made our lives better so when you say what’s in it for them, it does not mean that you have to sell them a 997 course or $47 course sometimes I send emails I sent five to seven emails a week and so i’m.

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Steve Werner: Not gonna send emails that.

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Steve Werner: Just tell people a joke, and they say hey I hope this made your life better those like I get responses from those like dude that was corny or hey That was a really bad dad joke i’m going to use that sometime like that’s all the people want.

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Rob Fortier: yeah yeah they I mean there is value in you know when we sell people things there we are offering them value but it’s a different kind of value.

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Rob Fortier: You know amy to mean that you want to offer things with no expectation of they have to open their wallets because you know it’s again back to like if you sat down with the friends.

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Rob Fortier: You wouldn’t just sit down in front of have coffee and just talk at them for five minutes and be like okay well I gotta go thanks, this was fun.

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Rob Fortier: You you you you offer some advice you tell them a story you you’re vulnerable with them like that’s something great to do an email, is that I try to do is i’m not perfect, I don’t ever claim to be perfect.

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Rob Fortier: So sometimes my emails are about you know I have this problem this week or I made this mistake.

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Rob Fortier: And here’s what I sort of figured out I could do to either use it to move forward or corrected or whatnot and then say hey you know what do you guys think about this, what would you have done differently or.

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Rob Fortier: If this happened to you, you know what would How would you react to it, so it is it’s about being vulnerable sharing experiences like I love the joke thing I might have to borrow that from you.

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Rob Fortier: For a couple emails but that that’s perfect because it gets someone to open it gets them to engage and gets them to react and another step in building that relationship, I can learn more about you probably from your jokes than I can from your sales scripts.

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Rob Fortier: So I love that.

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Steve Werner: that’s I mean 100% like you i’m not against selling anyone who knows me I make an offer in 90%.

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Rob Fortier: of my emails.

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Steve Werner: But I don’t lead with the offer I lead with something of fun something of value some kind of entertainment.

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Steve Werner: And maybe a teaching point and I love what you said about being vulnerable because that’s the thing like.

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Steve Werner: email at its core is not about making offers to people it’s about building relationships.

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Steve Werner: And that’s why it’s so powerful like you think about Facebook right everybody is on the Facebook or instagram bandwagon and they’re like other posts and PICs or they’re trying to comment on everything.

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Steve Werner: What are you really trying to do at the end of that you’re trying to get people to know like and trust you.

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Steve Werner: If they are on your email list the reason that I will say email is a is should be your number one marketing tool.

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Steve Werner: Is because you get to build a relationship, and you have a fence around those people, nobody can take those people away from you, if they’re reading your email they’re not seeing 18 other posts they’re not getting ads.

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Steve Werner: pitched at them in between and they’re not scrolling right, it is in front of them, you are building a relationship, and I think that’s That was the mind shift, for me, because I went through this in my own business um.

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Steve Werner: Why would just send out marketing emails I was like when I when I looked at it instead of its relationship i’m Ben settle said this and I think he said it best I think Ben said this.

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Steve Werner: That email is like talk radio in print.

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Rob Fortier: and

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Steve Werner: I don’t know if you listen to Howard Stern, I mean you’re from New York like if you listen to any kind of talk radio Why do people listen to it, because they want to be entertained.

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Steve Werner: They sell stuff.

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Steve Werner: Absolutely, but what’s The main reason, if you just translate that I don’t even know if anyone really listening to talk radio guess podcasts are probably the closest.

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Rob Fortier: yeah I would say podcast at this point.

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Rob Fortier: But that’s that’s just a good point about being you know being entertained and about and about selling right it’s there’s nothing wrong with it that’s all we have.

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Rob Fortier: Business that’s what we build an email list, but I want to emphasize a really good point about you made about social media and.

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Rob Fortier: landing and people’s inbox is you know people go people say Oh, you know only you know, like you said 20% people who don’t have a lot of experience with email.

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Rob Fortier: think that a 20% open rate is may sound low when really that’s actually really good you know ranges anywhere from 15 to 25 sort of the average on that.

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Rob Fortier: So that’s 20% of your email list that is opening and seeing your emails as opposed to.

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Rob Fortier: That second they flashed by on social media you it’s hard to measure that stuff and measure the results of that especially.

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Rob Fortier: Lately, with all the hullabaloo about apple changing you know security settings and that really having.

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Rob Fortier: People having a difficult time navigating that with Facebook ads and you know they’ll get it figured out eventually but you’re taking a risk, whereas if you send them an email.

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Rob Fortier: They have to make a choice they have to open it, they have to delete it or you know they have to they have to do something with it so you’re you’re sort of.

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Rob Fortier: encouraging them to do something with it and you have a much higher chance of success of getting your message across to somebody in that inbox it’s it’s a.

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Rob Fortier: it’s also it doesn’t cost you anything to send emails or you can spend hundreds of dollars on ads if you want to it’s very easy me i’ve done it i’ve wasted a lot of money very quickly.

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Rob Fortier: just trying to figure out just guessing on how to get people’s attention using paid ads on social media next time I will hire an expert I for sure.

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Steve Werner: I mean Facebook ads are really are mixed bag I ran a Facebook ads agency for years.

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Steve Werner: they’re definitely getting more expensive and you’re getting less reach for your money, due to the stuff that apple is changing and Facebook is changing, plus like you can’t use any.

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Steve Werner: they’re trying to whitewash ads as much as possible, and this is the reason Facebook, is doing it right they want the users to have an amazing experience and if your ad makes them feel bad in any way.

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Steve Werner: or drives them to do something in any way then Facebook says well they don’t they’re not going to like that, so they might bounce off of Facebook, so we don’t want to do that.

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Steve Werner: And when I say make somebody feel bad like good copy good sales copy has pain points it stirs up emotions and pain that’s kind of the point.

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Steve Werner: Stories do that really great stories do that good content anywhere does that.

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Steve Werner: But Facebook is an because it’s all API driven now like you’re going to have problems with that, I do think email should be the number one thing, and you should pick one other medium wherever you want to be.

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Steve Werner: Mines podcasting and video if you’re there, then people can find you and you will attract your crowd but your to your point from earlier we’re all told to build a list, most people build a list and they never know what to do with it.

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Steve Werner: So, then they don’t and then they realize why their businesses suffering.

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Rob Fortier: So exactly.

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Steve Werner: I would love to go into if you can give a framework, because I, so I want to go back to content.

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Steve Werner: Because if people are like I just don’t know what to write in my email so tell me about like you said i’m vulnerable, I know that scares, a lot of people, so if we’re not going to be super vulnerable.

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Steve Werner: What is just something can they take can they take an average walk down the streets, can they take something that they did in their social life, what, how do you work with people, what do you tell them to put into their emails.

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Rob Fortier: I you know I well, first of all, you have to know who you’re talking to that’s the biggest point if you’re growing your business, you have to know about your audience what’s it like you said you mentioned pain points that’s something that you want to address.

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Rob Fortier: Problems are having also what are things outside of maybe what you teach that relate to them like if you are working let’s say with.

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Rob Fortier: mom partners, you know working moms what are some other issues that maybe you don’t teach about but could come into their lives, maybe you’ve got some resources or things you could teach.

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Rob Fortier: As sort of offer them to sort of help them along so you’re addressing the whole person.

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Rob Fortier: You know what TV shows to them like like guy i’m not a big TV person.

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Rob Fortier: But I do like podcasts so sometimes I mentioned funny podcasts or tips, I saw that are related to my audience, but not necessarily something that i’m going to you know roll out of class about or teach about so.

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Rob Fortier: again go back to that adding value and building relationships with people, but I think there are ways to do it for people who struggle with what to put in about it, by giving the whole thing some structure.

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Rob Fortier: You know, like again back to sales those things have you know when you’re doing a launch those have a pattern those have a structure to them.

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Rob Fortier: But outside of that if you can establish a couple times of like let’s say you’re going to sign you’re going to email every week right.

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Rob Fortier: So, set up in advance this week it’s going to be something I want to teach a pain point.

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Rob Fortier: This is going to be something I tell a story like I love.

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Rob Fortier: Taking stories like you mentioned this going to the grocery store I went to the gym and I learned, what did you take away from something like something funny happened to you at the grocery store or you learn something about like not to put your frozen items.

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Rob Fortier: You know, at the end, because then they squish is your bread or whatever it is, you can take all those things, with a little creativity and turn it around as something that relates to.

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Rob Fortier: Your audience so i’m I I did a whole series, for a long time videos that I took after I worked out at the gym.

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Rob Fortier: And I translated those into emails about okay I just worked out i’m a gross sweaty mess and here’s what I learned today about working out and here’s how this translates into running a business, and can you relate to that.

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Rob Fortier: So so oh sorry go ahead.

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Steve Werner: Well, I was just that’s perfect that is absolutely perfect um if you’re listening to this and you’re like I don’t quite get it like, how do you do that, I want to go back to the grocery store thing right.

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Steve Werner: yeah like I got to the front and my bread was squished because I put the green beans on top, and you know it, it nothing was in order what this taught me was that I need a framework or I need.

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Steve Werner: A structure to put things in a lot like you probably need a structure for emails so if you’re interested in that here’s a template.

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Steve Werner: Like you see how like quickly like I I told a story last week about going out for a run and not knowing where I was going and getting lost.

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Steve Werner: And then I laid that right into, and I said well when I got lost I started to get tired right because I normally run for four miles, but I got to five and a half miles so i’m like oh man.

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Steve Werner: i’m getting tired well what happens when you don’t have a plan and you get lost right a lot of people do this in business, they start moving forward, they don’t have a plan or strategy.

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Steve Werner: They get two weeks in their writing a bunch of emails to join them on social media they get lost, so you need a strategy.

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Steve Werner: If you need help with a strategy.

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Steve Werner: that’s what I do I help people with strategy I help you with storytelling and help people reach their audience reach out to me down below.

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Steve Werner: Like that’s a real easy twist on that story and that whole email was 180 words so it’s it’s short it’s a little bit longer than one iPhone screen it’s about two.

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Steve Werner: it’s readable, it has a clear call to action but that’s i’m going to go back to you at the gym because you can you did a series which is even better, because people know what to expect.

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Rob Fortier: mm hmm yeah every Monday, it was a it was a sweaty rob wearing a bandana video, and it was you know.

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Rob Fortier: Thinking about working out it takes you got to show up consistently to get results, you have to have some discipline you’re always trying to get better at what you do, improving your technique.

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Rob Fortier: you’re experimenting to keep yourself interested, so what you know what can you play with to make this more fun for people, so all those lessons I was able to tie into.

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Rob Fortier: You know, running a business, you know, having like you said great example with that run I love that you know, having a plan.

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Rob Fortier: Constantly learning but that’s something every business owner needs to be doing is constantly learning, improving that and sharing that with their readers What did you learn and and how can this benefit them.

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Rob Fortier: So it is, it is, it does take a little bit of creativity, but there are possibilities every place you look.

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Rob Fortier: To take anything that happens to you and turn it into an email that can add value to the your subscribers lives and and get a conversation going i’m asked if I was a runner I was still at running idea, but I don’t i’m not a runner so that’s a pass on that one.

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Steve Werner: I mean you could use it with driving you good.

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Rob Fortier: thing yeah.

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Steve Werner: I went to go to a new store right, I wanted to go to a different store or you could even a detour right there was a sign up and I had to take a detour and I didn’t know where I was going how many of you have hit something like that in your business like.

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Steve Werner: Every like everything can be used as content you just have to it’s more of a mind shift switch so I actually want to ask you, what do you think is the main reason people don’t email more often.

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Rob Fortier: Based on the questions I get, and so my experience, I think, mostly it just comes down to I don’t think I have something important to say so i’m not going to say anything at all, because that’s better.

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Rob Fortier: The second reason after that is also I don’t want to bother my subscribers and it’s like well, they said they signed up to hear from you, so we need to.

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Rob Fortier: Just wipe that one out but it comes back to I don’t know what I just don’t know what to you know where to even begin.

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Rob Fortier: And you know if you sat down and someone said tell me, I need to ask your advice you know tell me about xyz in your business, you could probably go on for 10 or 15 minutes about certain topics so take that knowledge.

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Rob Fortier: And you know sit down me even do this exercise is when people sit down and let’s let’s talk this out we’re not going to write an article we’re not going to write an email or newsletter or whatever you want to call it.

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Rob Fortier: just talk to me, and maybe we’ll record it and then you got all the ideas you need to probably make 567 emails out of a 10 minute conversation because you’re comfortable with the format of.

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Rob Fortier: of talking so that’s the thing that’s hard for sometimes people to is to translate that into the written word, so you know what hire someone to transcribe it use a service that auto transcribes that and just clean it up.

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Rob Fortier: don’t let that don’t let that get stuck in terms of I had nothing to say you have plenty to say you just don’t want to write it down in an email so.

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Rob Fortier: work it out people and figure out how to get into the written word because you’ve got that not you’re a business owner you’ve got that knowledge you’re an expert in something.

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Rob Fortier: So don’t be afraid to share it with people because that’s what they need, and they need to hear again and again and again and again.

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Rob Fortier: Things that you turn will trivialize because they’re easy for you are probably hard for somebody that’s on your email list they struggle with that so they can really use your help with that.

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Steve Werner: The I mean that is, I think that is absolutely great advice.

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Steve Werner: Like just start writing like you just have to send something out sending something is better than sending nothing I talked to somebody a couple weeks ago that email once a month.

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Steve Werner: Because they didn’t want to bother their subscribers but really when we talked about a little bit more, it was because they didn’t know what to say.

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Steve Werner: And it was hard to write they’re like oh i’m writing they were writing like these thousand word essays and I was like, no, no, like short sweet and.

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Steve Werner: The second piece that I want to talk about which you, you brought up on is they’re scared of bothering people right which that was this person’s thing, and my my response to them was.

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Steve Werner: If they unsubscribe they weren’t meant to buy from you like if they unsubscribe because you’re emailing them a few times a week they’re not your customer.

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Steve Werner: They were never probably going to buy anything from you anyway, people like this is people buy from people they know like and trust and less there’s 2% of the population that is in.

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Steve Werner: Immense pain around what you’re doing, and they will buy anything but they’re usually the people that are the hardest to deal with right.

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Steve Werner: And everybody else the other 98% will buy some things and they’re more likely to buy from somebody they know like and trust have a relationship with.

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Steve Werner: And points them in the direction, so my question would be, how do you tell people to either handle unsubscribed or to get over that Oh, I might bother somebody would do what’s your your prescription for that.

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Rob Fortier: I sort of look at it, as you know, if you go like you went to a party let’s say, and you, you met a handful of people.

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Rob Fortier: And you know you like them all, like say there were five of them, and you try to make coffee dates with them afterwards or zoom calls or whatever.

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Rob Fortier: Before pre pandemic times, we can do those things meet in person.

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Rob Fortier: But you think of it like that there’s a couple that are you’re going to connect with right away, and they become friends, for a very long time.

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Rob Fortier: there’s a couple that you may have a meeting or two with once and be like you know you were nice, but you know, maybe i’ll.

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Rob Fortier: i’ll see you again, and maybe I won’t but I didn’t really hit it off with you as well as I thought it would.

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Rob Fortier: So subscribers are the same thing right everybody you met met all these people, they were excited to meet you they got on your list.

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Rob Fortier: And after a while they’re like Oh, I really like this guy i’m going to stick with him and there were a couple they’re like.

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Rob Fortier: You know he’s not really for me, so you have to sort of take the it’s not about you, they don’t hate you.

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Rob Fortier: They just you just weren’t the right fit for them so and it’s a it’s a continuous Evan flow like you have friends that come and go, your friends, they don’t talk to you for a while and they come back into your life and it’s like you never left.

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Rob Fortier: People are going to come in and out of your email list and that’s Okay, they may unsubscribe they might come back they might not.

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Rob Fortier: But it’s a it’s a constantly up and down thing I just you know did a recent event were added quite a few people.

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Rob Fortier: And then the first email, I sent after that event ended I whole bunch of on subscribes you know what that’s Okay, because they came they got a little piece of rob they decided he’s not really for me so i’m going to jump off now, before we go too far in this relationship here.

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Rob Fortier: So don’t take it personally.

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Steve Werner: Well, that is the biggest thing don’t take it personally you there are 8.2 billion people in the world there’s I think there’s I don’t know where it like 400 million in the US.

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Steve Werner: You can get more subscribers you should keep building your list, the only reason that you should be worried if people are on subscribing is, if you are not adding people, but even then, if they’re unsubscribe from you, they were never going to buy from you anyway.

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Steve Werner: Exactly don’t worry about it and keep sending it out, I actually look at it, one of my mentors Alex sharpen told me haters confirm greatness like when you start to be polarizing in your message for every.

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Steve Werner: hundred fans, you have you’re gonna have one person that doesn’t like you, for whatever reason, your your messages and five with them.

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Steve Werner: Not a problem that means that you are actually taking a stand on something, because if you don’t take a stand.

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Steve Werner: If you just stay in the middle you’re never going to attract anybody polarity attracts people, and when you start to be have some polarity you’re going to annoy some people, some people are going to unsubscribe that’s fine they weren’t your people.

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Steve Werner: yeah if I could I could shout that from the rooftop I would over and over and over again, what do you think how many people do you think you need on an email list to be successful.

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Rob Fortier: You know that is a challenging question to answer because it depends on your business but.

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Rob Fortier: You can have a small list of 500 to 1000 people and if they’re really responsive they’re really hanging with you.

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Rob Fortier: That may be all you need other people, depending on their business may need more maybe to be in the thousands, because.

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Rob Fortier: there’s something that’s more one off or hit it and quit it they you know, maybe there’s not a way for them to be long term.

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Rob Fortier: People of yours or advocates, so it kind of varies but it’s really so much more about.

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Rob Fortier: The response rate, you know, are you from the very beginning, like so I encourage people when they start emailing to have some kind of nurture sequence in the beginning.

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Rob Fortier: You know, right from the BAT you get people a few emails come a day after each other.

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Rob Fortier: That say hey this is, who I am, this is what you can expect from being here, let me give you some value value value, and you know if you want more and you’re in the right place just hang with me.

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Rob Fortier: Because if you get people to jump off right away in the beginning, but it trains them.

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Rob Fortier: To say okay i’m liking this i’m liking what i’m getting I like this vibe I like Robbie tell me some fun quirky weird things about him and he gave me some free stuff so i’m going to.

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Rob Fortier: i’m going to respond and i’m going to ask questions and be involved with him so to me that is much more of importance than i’ve got 10,000 people.

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Rob Fortier: And I did an event not too long ago with somebody who had a list much larger than me and we had.

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Rob Fortier: Sure list was much more unresponsive than my was mine was and I kind of got the same numbers from her as she did, and it wasn’t about the numbers on her email list it was about their engagement with her.

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Steve Werner: that’s the biggest takeaway that I can I can offer people I mean it took me.

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Steve Werner: I got to 1000 people pretty quickly and then it took me probably two years to break 2500 and then it grew pretty quick after that, but I will say I did.

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Steve Werner: Plenty in sales off of 1000 person to 1500 person list because they were responsive to what I was putting out one of my really good friends has a list of seven to 800 people she doesn’t put a lot of time or energy into doing it, she has her business last year did over a quarter million.

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Steve Werner: yeah off of a list of that size and she’s she is I mean she works in copy she’s copywriter um.

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Steve Werner: And she just sells to that list right, but she puts out she’s quirky she’s fun her look like she has over 30% open rate, which is awesome I mean some of her email she has like a 50 60% open rate which she’s her list is very responsive.

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Steve Werner: And anytime, this is the thing, like any she’s booked out usually six to eight months in advance all she has to do is when she gets down to six months say hey.

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Steve Werner: i’m i’m usually booked out six eight months in advance, right now, I have some openings you know, five months from now, if you want in, let me know and she sold like and she’s not selling cheap services.

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Steve Werner: So it really i’m telling you that story if you’re listening to this and you’re like.

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Steve Werner: I don’t know blah blah blah like you have all this nonsense going on in your head you don’t need a big list you don’t need to be a crazy good writer i’m I am a horrible writer I can’t spell i’ll tell you the very first email that I ever sent to a list.

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Steve Werner: I think i’ve told this story on here before, but the very first email I ever sent ever I bought a list of 150,000 for a.

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Steve Werner: This is in 2014 I bought the list from reputable list broker the list was 4k is what I paid for it $4,000.

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Steve Werner: I loaded it I got it all cleaned got ready to go the first email, I sent I the program that I was using I thought, how to spell checker built into it, I was so used to Google catching all the spelling mistakes.

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Steve Werner: 27 misspelled words first email, and it was a professional it wasn’t a hey my name is Steve, this is what I do.

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Steve Werner: It was actually going to dentists and chiropractors, to show them how I was inviting them to an a marketing event that I was holding.

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Steve Werner: I got I will say I got a lot of responses I got I think I got over 100 responses one lady flat out blasted me like the very first email I opened.

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Steve Werner: What is this blah blah blah you can’t spell, why are you sending this to me you’re not real you must be from a third world country like you’re some prints somewhere.

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Steve Werner: Like she she was really harsh some other people were nicer there were some people in there that were super harsh you want to talk about unsubscribed I think I lost a third of my list um it was it was not good, but.

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Rob Fortier: wow I will tell you I can’t spell my grammar is not good, I use an APP called Hemingway.

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Steve Werner: Which is pretty fun it checks for grammar and make sure that i’m not making any.

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Steve Werner: hoard mistakes, but I just tell people in my nerd I have a nurturer sequence is three emails but in all three of them I say you know hey I am not a great writer, but i’m entertaining.

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Steve Werner: And you know what if there’s some misspelled words or words aren’t capitalized or I randomly capitalized letters in the middle of words, for some reason I don’t know what’s going on there.

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Steve Werner: But i’m like if any of that bothers you, you should just unsubscribe because you’re going to get more annoyed with my emails than anything.

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Steve Werner: Right, but if you if you want to have fun and you want like daily entertainment, as well as some lessons like I try to teach some stuff that i’m learning in my life.

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Steve Werner: cool you’re going to have a good time that’s it and, like I get I think I got more replies to that email when they come through it they’re like dude.

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Steve Werner: Like thanks for thanks for doing this like I get that email a lot, which makes me happy i’m like cool i’m doing something right um.

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Steve Werner: Anyway, the i’m just telling you that story if you’re out there, listening to this just start sending emails just just tell a joke start with a joke or quote Those are two really easy ones, your favorite quote what it means to you, and why.

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Steve Werner: and wish them a good day um I would that’s my advice, though, and rob this is your your interview so.

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Rob Fortier: People.

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Steve Werner: If they’re getting started, I mean you’re the pro i’m not the pro it email, by any means, what would you tell people if they’re listening and they’re like i’m so used to trying to send a newsletter but nobody reads it.

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Steve Werner: I don’t know where to start I have these stories like yeah I got lost on a drive, but how do I put that in an email What would you tell somebody to do what step number one step number two step number three.

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Rob Fortier: um I think one of the first things to do, and I kind of did this, my first started out running you know these types of emails.

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Rob Fortier: is to look in your own inbox if you’re anything like me and probably Steve you get tons of emails every day in your inbox so.

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Rob Fortier: Take a look at them and see what resonates with you, what is it is there a style that kind of works, you know, is it.

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Rob Fortier: Short and quirky are the sentences really short, is it longer is it a little bit more formal maybe, so what resonates with you, it is that something you can use.

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Rob Fortier: As an example I will also tell you that’s a great place to get subject line ideas is don’t copy other people’s work but use as an inspiration to create your own so start there to get sort of inspired of like Okay, how can I do this.

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Rob Fortier: And also, I would say the next thing is, is to you know, find a topic that is going to resonate with your audience, if you have no idea at this point.

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Rob Fortier: You know, go to places like Google and do searches go to forums like Cora and read it, what are people in your industry talking about what questions do they have.

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Rob Fortier: I love the website is called answer the public comm and you just type, in a word, and it will give you literally hundreds of things that people are looking for and asking about.

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Rob Fortier: I also like to look their books like best sellers on Amazon and read the.

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Rob Fortier: Read the table of contents, because it gives you an idea about what are some things that might be important to people so use those as inspiration if it’s relative to your audience, so you know find the style that you can sort of use find a good topic and then.

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Rob Fortier: Try to just say it like you’re giving advice to someone in person.

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Rob Fortier: And if you can write that out that’s great if you have to talk it out that’s great if you have to tell it to your friend and they have to write it down for you like.

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Rob Fortier: Like Steve said just start writing the emails because I can tell you one thing if you never write emails you will never get better at them.

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Rob Fortier: The only way to get better at them and to get more comfortable doing them is to show up and put in the work and send something out.

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Rob Fortier: And the more you do, that the easier I swear I promise you it, the easier it becomes, the more that you do it becomes second nature, and you will start seeing ideas.

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Rob Fortier: all over the place you’ll have too many ideas you probably write a calendar for the next six months of ideas, because you’ll be able to sort of find them in the world, because you’re in tune with that.

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Steve Werner: That is absolutely great advice I know when I started I started putting notes in my phone every time I got an idea.

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Steve Werner: I just built a document so anytime I was wondering, I would just go look at that document that is a great idea um rob where can people find you if people are like you know what I need some help for professional where can people find you at where should they go.

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Rob Fortier: They can go to my website it’s my first and last name so it’s rob 48 COM R Ob Fo R T I er.com.

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Rob Fortier: And from there, you can find a social media channels, I hang out a lot on instagram but i’m also on Facebook.

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Rob Fortier: And linkedin as well, so you can connect with me and and the scope me out.

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Rob Fortier: And if you want to join my email list then you’ll get examples of what a nurturer sequence looks like and you can see the kinds of things i’m doing, and you can even borrow from me, I give you permission to borrow from my emails for your own benefit if it gets you to start writing emails.

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Steve Werner: awesome rob Thank you so much, I he just gave you permission, if you have no excuse.

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Steve Werner: After this podcast to not be sending more emails everything will be listed in the show notes.

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Steve Werner: Also, you can grab the action bullets, which is the quick easy cheat sheet version of this podcast all of that stuff is linked down below rob Thank you so much for coming on and sharing so much valuable information, it was awesome to have you here.

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Rob Fortier: Thanks so much David, thank you for having me.

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Steve Werner: No problem my pleasure to everyone else until next time take action change lives and make money, we will see you soon.