David Baer Podcast: Old-school Marketing Meets New-school tech.

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Steve Werner

Steve Werner

Keynote Speaker, Author, 170+ Monetization, Conversion, and One to Many Sales Presentations Worldwide.

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00:03
What is going on everyone. Oh, welcome to grow your impact income and influence the number one show for monetization strategy. I am your host Steve Warner and I am glad that you are here very special guest with us today. David, Bear. Welcome to the show.
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David Baer
00:19
Thanks so much, even appreciate it.
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Steve Werner
00:21
No problem. I am excited to have you here. You have been in direct response marketing for more than two decades, right now, your firm helps strategically.
00:34
advise people and bring gross revenues up in their business but didn’t always start or didn’t always
00:41
Act like this, you actually started off selling classical music, which I’m kind of excited to hear how you transition from classical music to this, why don’t you tell us how this all started
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David Baer
00:51
Yeah, absolutely. Okay so early days as a marketer. We’re back in the mid 90s.
00:59
And I was working. I done arts related stuff professionally actually danced on Broadway. I went off to college, I became a stage manager professionally and then I got into ARTS ADMINISTRATION.
01:12
Worked at Lincoln Center in New York and a whole bunch of other places. And I started running a performing arts center.
01:17
Well, this was back in the days when email was just getting started. Right. I remember went off to college and this email you know thing was so cool. I could email my friends at different colleges and all of that.
01:30
And and then people started getting AOL accounts etc Compu serve prodigy. Remember those and and it was also back in the days when a business would send email out
01:44
And get this, people would open all of the emails, they received, and so we recognize this as we were, you know, building out our subscription seasons.
01:56
That not only should we start, you know, getting people’s phone numbers and getting their, you know, physical mailing addresses to send brochures, but hey, let’s
02:04
We got this new website thing and we can communicate with them electronically. Let’s leverage that. So we started collecting email addresses and I was an email marketer back in the 90s, so
02:17
I, you know, obviously there’s there’s a long road from the classical music world to event production, I became a marketer in the wine industry doing big events and then ultimately
02:31
Started a little marketing agency thinking I was going to serve wineries, but that’s a, that’s a, you know, long story that we don’t necessarily need to deep deeply dive into unless you have have something you’re really curious about there.
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Steve Werner
02:43
Well, I mean, did you did you have to exit the wine industry because you were drinking too much of the product.
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David Baer
02:51
No, I still drink plenty of the product and surround myself with the wine people. I consider myself a wine person. But no, it’s, um, it’s a great industry to be in, and I had the opportunity to
03:06
Do a lot of storytelling, which actually helped me as a copywriter in that in that industry because unlike so many industries, you know, the businesses are focused on doing the business that they do.
03:19
And in the wine industry, you know, we were working with the I was in the import world. So I was importing wines from little
03:28
You know, farmers in Europe, for example, right. What do they know about marketing their wines, except you know we’ve been in this industry for three generations. We have great exposure on the southern side of this hill and like
03:44
Who cares about that. No, I got some real good material to share in order to get this
03:49
This product moving
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Steve Werner
03:51
So tell me, do you just off the cuff. Do you remember any of the copy that you wrote, I’m actually a certified some
03:58
Past life.
03:59
So we can talk about wine but like wine copy is always really interesting because honestly like the label sells
04:06
Unless somebody really knows why. And you can show them a cool label and they’re going to buy and it could be a $9 bottle. It could be a $90 bottle. It could be. It’s a $900 bottle, it’s actually going to have probably pretty plain label.
04:18
Yeah, most cases.
04:19
But what did you come up with for coffee because that’s pretty interesting.
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David Baer
04:22
Yeah, so, you know, we were an importer and distributor. We were selling to people who were in the business of buying wine but you know it did you deploy our services as a song.
04:34
Yeah okay so
04:35
So you know so much of what we specialized in I was doing, you know, natural winemaking biodynamic wines and some super geeky stuff.
04:44
You know, if I told you, you may, you may not knowingly that I told you know I worked on the Louis Dresdner portfolio.
04:51
Or others, you know, super geeky things that you know needed to be hand sold so the the writing that I did was really focused more around, not, not necessarily the the words but finding the right story.
05:07
Mm hmm. And, and it’s almost always the story about the people.
05:12
I remember I’m trying to remember who this was, it was a burgundy producer that we were working with through Becky Wasserman, who
05:21
You know, had gone off to the French Air Force and the father was, you know, going to be retiring and the son decides to come back and be a part of the family business.
05:34
Even though he had this great career, as you know, a military and then commercial pilot and so we told his story and and it was, you know, the passion of, you know, contributing to the family’s history and all of that.
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Steve Werner
05:49
People love that stuff so much if I learned. I mean, we would just
05:54
Learn little stories about the different wines that we were selling and just tell anything about them and in a table side service like so I was a major do the restaurant and I worked as a psalm.
06:05
Two nights a week when our song was off so I could hand sell something by telling a 32nd story about how I used to always tell the story about grapes being resonated on the on the mats.
06:17
For super
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David Baer
06:18
Culture I’m our own it. Yeah.
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Steve Werner
06:20
Yeah, exactly.
06:21
And that like people be like oh my goodness, I can taste it and you’re like, aha, sure you can.
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David Baer
06:27
Know,
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Steve Werner
06:27
Like, let’s open another bottle. Let’s get going. Um, so
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David Baer
06:31
Yeah we one of the biggest selling well certainly not a big selling wine. But one of the
06:38
Stories that I would tell and I would go in and train, train staff but so one of the cool things was my my sales team. I was the marketing director my sales team would
06:49
use me as bait to get a restaurant to take a by the glass, you know,
06:55
Purchase right so they would buy five cases at a time. We had plenty of stock on it. We could continue replenishing it and we would often find some weird wines that we would get them to you know put by the glass.
07:07
And then I would come in and I would share a whole bunch of storytelling techniques to the servers. And one of the stories that I remember. I can’t remember whether it was rad con. It was it was somebody who was using em for or clay in the in there.
07:21
In, in, you know, their aging of the wines raising the wines and then we talked about some I think they were using a an egg shaped vessel.
07:31
And I was telling them you know what the benefits are what the results of using an egg shaped vessel. We’re on the texture and the and so
07:39
I had one of the servers, who went and told the story, you know, really excited about is this concrete egg and
07:46
And here’s what it’s going to do. And here’s what it’s gonna be textual eyes and they got, you know, they came back to me the next time I saw it said
07:52
I’ve been telling that story, and people are coming back to me, left and right, and saying yeah I taste it. I feel it, just like with the you know the resonated grapes, you’re talking about. It’s great. I love it.
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Steve Werner
08:02
I mean, that’s like with the reason my success in the restaurant industry. It was because I approached it as a sales job. I said, every time you go to the table, you are selling
08:12
The service you’re selling the food you’re selling the experience. I mean, I’ve worked in Michelin star restaurants. So it was easy to do that.
08:20
I also, I mean, then I ran veils fine dining. So like, we’re going to the top of a mountain where you have to take a snowcat in like that builds to the experience and people will splurge we’re going down a rabbit hole here. So let’s move from wine, which is amazing.
08:36
And it is like the fact that direct marketing.
08:39
Principles will sell wine, they’ll sell classical music. And to your point, the winemakers
08:46
They fall into the same trap that everybody falls into right we make the best product. We have the XYZ 9000 sitting in the barn. We have the south facing slopes that but that’s not the story. So you learn the storytelling skills, where’d you go from why
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David Baer
09:03
So, you know, I moved from New York City to Portland, Oregon, and I was, you know, here, to which is where I still am to get
09:15
Work for another distributor and and then ultimately, I started a little Facebook marketing agency back at the dawn of Facebook advertising.
09:26
And I think I told you this at one point. Previously I walked in and started talking to some of my friends who were winery owners or a marketing director at one of our quote unquote big wineries, we don’t have big wineries here in Oregon.
09:41
And said, you know, we should probably you know leverage this new Facebook thing. I think it’s going to be really
09:47
You know, useful for you and getting people to come into the tasting room and all of that. And people just laughed me out of the room.
09:54
Because they were like, what, why do we want to market to college kids because at that time. That’s what Facebook was. It was, you know, it had matured a little bit, but it really has not hadn’t been embraced, to the degree that it is now.
10:08
And so I was doing Facebook advertising. I really got to know that that channel of advertising.
10:17
Really well and I I made some courses on the subject, you know, through them up on you to me. I got a following. I have, I think at this point around 30,000 students on you to me.
10:27
And I started getting people reaching out to me and say, Hey, David, I took your course. I loved it. It was great. I don’t have time for this. Can I hire you.
10:36
And suddenly I was in the Facebook advertising business mostly for people who, it turns out we’re coaches something I’d never heard of before. I didn’t know what the heck a coach was and I was specializing in Facebook ads for coaches.
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Steve Werner
10:54
Wow, that’s a big change.
10:56
Coaches wine, just in case you don’t know
11:00
So, okay, you start running, you start helping like so you became the ads agency before there were ads agency for coaches because nowadays. There’s a gazillion of them floating around. Everyone thinks they can run ads, so
11:13
How did that turn. Then what happened when you start running ads for coaches. Let’s hear some of the success stories because I’m sure you had some pretty crazy success stories.
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Unknown Speaker
11:22
You know,
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David Baer
11:23
Here’s the thing about at this point in time, you know, traffic was search traffic. So people who were getting traffic from Google, YouTube was not really understood widely by you know us little, little, you know, businesses as a as a traffic.
11:44
originator and social traffic was brand new, at that point for from a paid perspective.
11:52
And so nobody really knew what to do when it came to online traffic. This was the point in time where people were just sending you know any traffic any clicks, they could to the homepage their website, which didn’t help them at all in selling what they were offering right
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Steve Werner
12:08
There was no there’s no funnel.
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David Baer
12:10
There was no funnel. There’s no call to action. There was no, here’s what you should do if you’re interested in you know my services or even. Here’s what my services are
12:19
Or writers
12:19
Or here’s who I serve
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Steve Werner
12:21
Here’s my homepage.
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David Baer
12:23
Yes.
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Steve Werner
12:23
It’s got flashing stuff.
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Unknown Speaker
12:25
Hey,
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David Baer
12:28
You know, maybe, maybe, here’s a link to go buy my book.
12:31
But at Barnes and Noble
12:34
Yeah for Amazon.
12:36
Yeah, and and so
12:38
What happened was, and you, I know you asked for success stories, but the real success in a lot of the work that I did was turning those terrible non sales focused
12:52
You know websites into something that actually got people moving through a process or through what we now call a funnel, that’s where I think I found the real success.
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Steve Werner
13:04
Nice. So you were basically before anyone really knew what a funnel was, you would just put up a CTA some kind of opt in, get them to buy something, but have a singular sale or at least driving towards a singular outcome because websites. And back in those days.
13:19
It’s actually funny. I did a we did a before and after a time machine I’m last Wednesday on our web show where we went back and we looked at eBay in 2002
13:31
And what their homepage looks like. Then we looked at some other sales pages that weren’t even they were be considered sales pages, then nowadays they wouldn’t last no one like they would 100% of traffic would bounce.
13:43
Sure. Um, so, okay. So you started running stuff for coaches, you started getting them to have a clear call to action and a clear flow through their website. How does that transition because let’s say that’s 2003 like 2005 2006 probably somewhere in there right
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David Baer
13:59
I know it’s a bit later because Facebook ads didn’t start until
14:03
2007 to nine is where the that started. So this was probably 2011 2012
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Steve Werner
14:09
Okay, yeah. So you’re getting clear calls to action you’re starting to see how stuff works, whose whose stuff, are you consuming at the time.
14:17
Like, who, who are your, who are your mentors.
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David Baer
14:20
Well, you know, I’ve been a junkie of direct response copywriting training for for a long time. And you know, I probably
14:30
Dan Kennedy stuff. Early on, Jay. Abraham stuff for a very long time. And then some of the I used to read. I still do. And like, you know, most copywriters who are trained. I even used to rewrite
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Steve Werner
14:45
You know, a lot of classic
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David Baer
14:48
You know, sales letters for crazy stuff. Like, I mean, I love the agoura things that are all about financial
14:56
You know, we don’t trust the stock market or the or the professionals, but here we got the secret backdoor that’s gonna let you into I used to rewrite a ton of that stuff. But so, but it was entertainment for me. I really wasn’t taking it.
15:11
You know, I remember as I’m telling you this, I’m thinking about. I was sucked in by a lot of late night infomercials. I bought you know courses on how to trade commodities and things like that, which were sold with these you know 16 page sales letters that I, you know, got in the mail.
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Steve Werner
15:30
Jeff Walker. I mean, Jeff Walker, the Product Launch Formula Jeff Walker got his start writing a financial newsletter that he then moved online and was selling at first he sold it for 10 bucks. Then he sold it for I think $79 no one understood pricing.
15:46
Then on the, I mean, the stuff that you’re talking about. I actually paid for a conference where we went and we hand wrote
15:54
A sales letter for four hours and then we broke it all down. And the whole point is that it wires your synapses, so that you understand copy a little bit better and
16:06
as boring as it was, it wasn’t boring, but I was a little bit frustrated because it’s like, why did I get on plane and fly here and this is what we’re doing. I would say that that had that definitely shifted paradigms for me and move me forward so
16:20
Direct Marketing Dan Kennedy Gary Halbert Jay Abraham you named like the murderers row I think anybody worth their salt has probably studied some of their stuff somewhere along the time
16:32
So where does that, how does 2012 transition to where we’re at now in 2020. Are you still mostly working with coaches are you working with some other people like how, what’s your business look like now because you’ve heard
16:46
So many of these ads agencies have come and gone. What I want the listeners to pick up on is what gave you the staying power and why are you still here because you’ve obviously done something right
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David Baer
16:57
Yeah, well, the staying power in the why I’m still here is that I decided to do something else.
17:03
So what what I ultimately realized when it came to my business was that I had a tactic that I was selling and I was to some extent I was careful about vetting who I was selling it to
17:22
And only aligning it with the right type of business to get them to the right type of customer on the platform that I knew how to how to drive traffic from
17:34
And that’s there’s a psychological you know aspect to running traffic from any particular platform Facebook. Nobody is scrolling through Facebook looking to buy stuff I am but most normal people aren’t
17:47
And and so, you know, what is the psychology behind that approach is is really interesting to me.
17:56
But what a lot of people who either came to me. Didn’t realize and certainly a lot of other marketers or marketing agencies or marketing service providers who specialize in
18:09
One particular tactical approach or a handful is it’s not always the best fit. And what happens once you get the traffic to the site.
18:21
Right. Many that’s their job is done. And my recognition of the fact that, you know, a lot, a lot of these clients came to me in the first place, didn’t have anything set up in terms of a funnel.
18:34
Well, they didn’t have a business model that was clearly thought out either when it came to all of the different opportunities that they had to maximize the revenue.
18:44
And so probably about 20 cash. It’s now about three years ago. So that would been 2018 2017, something like that. I can’t remember.
18:56
What year I ended up doing this but I basically stopped focusing on that business of driving traffic from Facebook and I partnered up with my current partner and started working on marketing strategy specifically around how to maximize revenue at any point along the way.
19:22
Between the business and customer relationship. And that’s what we focus on these days.
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Steve Werner
19:28
Awesome. So I mean that is actually really good because you’ve been through so much of it. You did some direct response copy
19:35
You did the why and you did the storytelling. You then did the ads you also did the clear CTA and the funnel before funnels were even a thing. So you understand all of that and now you’re putting it to work, doing strategy.
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David Baer
19:47
Yeah, because, you know, ultimately, there’s all these little pieces that business owners will will grasp, you know, this one little concept because they got exposed to that.
19:58
And so you’re right I I learned this. And then I learned this. And then I learned this. And now I put all those pieces of the puzzle together, but I understand how they fit.
20:07
Right in a way that a lot of our clients don’t so that I can help them make sure that
20:14
First of all, that they’re leveraging each and every piece that they have available to them, but also that they’re emphasizing the things that they need to be emphasizing and maybe they’re, you know, abandoning that the things that really aren’t the right fit for them anyway.
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Steve Werner
20:29
Well that’s, that is a big piece right there is like one of the strongest things. I took away from Tim Ferriss is like
20:36
You should probably be cutting a lot of things out that you’re doing. If you can remove two things you’re going to go way farther away faster than adding five things. Most of the time.
20:48
Um, so let’s talk a little bit then about what are what’s like one of the number one strategy mistakes that you see businesses making like if somebody hires you and you come in and you start working with them, what’s what’s like one of the big things that you’re like stop doing this.
21:06
Is there something
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David Baer
21:06
Yeah. Well, I mean, the biggest strategy mistake is that there’s no strategy.
21:12
That that they don’t understand the difference between tactics and strategies. And so when we, when we have a conversation with them and we say, Well, tell us about your marketing strategy. It’s um I I respond to any Yelp review possible
21:26
Okay, that’s not a strategy, but that that’s I think that’s a big
21:31
Challenges that strategy and tactics, even though you know it’s as plain as day one, six it’s it’s explained to someone
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Steve Werner
21:41
Well, let’s let’s break that down, because that is actually something I’ve heard people say they’re like, What do you mean I have a strategy I respond to a Yelp review.
21:49
Well, that’s not a strategy that’s a singular tactic. It’s not a very good one. So, for the sake of our listeners, what would you define as a tactic.
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David Baer
21:58
So I think a tactic is a as a given activity, a singular activity that is hopefully
22:09
Getting you what you want and something that you’re repeatedly going back to to to to operate, but it’s not necessarily going to get you.
22:21
From point A to point B, which is really what what strategy is about. It’s how do you move from the point. So now I’m talking about strategy. How do you move from the point where you are, to the point where do you want to be given
22:37
Everything that surrounds you so the assets, you have the competition. That’s in play, who you’re trying to speak to all. So that’s the strategy is, how do you get from here to there.
22:49
The tactic is the activity that you take along the path, and it may be a singular tactic. Most cases there are multiple tactics that comprise the the achievement achievement of that strategic approach.
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Steve Werner
23:06
Sure. So I guess to break that down and define it a little further email would be a specific
23:12
A specific tactic Facebook ads is a tactic now their strategy that goes on in the proper way to use those things to get you from where you are right now to making more sales bringing more leads make more money.
23:26
Good.
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David Baer
23:26
Okay, yeah.
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Steve Werner
23:28
So the biggest thing is that I think business owners probably feel overwhelmed right because they they’re going back to
23:35
You know, going back to the wind story. I have the best training. I went to Harvard. People should just come see me I respond to yell bad. Why aren’t they coming in on they are coming in because you’re not giving them a compelling obvious reason. At least that’s my theory.
23:53
But I’d love to hear, David, like when you start working with somebody you’ve identified that they don’t have a proper strategy. What’s the, what’s your like a top down process that you would just take them through to get them started.
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David Baer
24:07
Yeah, so, you know, our approach is to really start not even with the the pieces that we’ve been talking about but but actually, before we even talked about, who are you trying to speak to, what’s the appropriate messaging, what’s the appropriate channel.
24:25
We start with mission, vision and values core values is something that most of us don’t spend any time thinking about in our business right and how what we believe. What is important to us.
24:41
contributes to the way that we operate our business. So that’s actually one of the very first things that we will address with a new client is core values.
24:53
Because we want to make sure that what they’re doing what they’re saying.
24:56
As they run their business actually reflects reflects those core values. We want to make sure that the people that they are trying to bring into their business.
25:04
Are a good match for those core values and very often, I found that there’s a misalignment
25:11
And that’s why we start here, right. So, so we’ll start with mission, vision, values and then we start talking about unique selling proposition.
25:20
Market positioning and only then, once we have all of that sort of fundamental stuff in place, do we start talking about who you’re trying to attract
25:31
What the messaging is and what the tactical pieces are like a lead magnet like it you know like a coupon or whatever it is that is appropriate to that given business.
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Steve Werner
25:41
So for somebody, listening to this, this runs a business. I can see them saying, Why are my values important
25:47
Why does that matter, why, like I just want more money. I want more customers come in and that has nothing to do and
25:55
My first my gut response to that, like, I’ve had people say that to me right I’m like you. So you’re competing on price that right because there’s obviously nothing else that you can compete on. Yeah, but I have the whiz bang 5000
26:07
They should come to me. This is why businesses fail. So to put David on the spot.
26:14
Tell us a little bit about, like, why are values important and can you point out a company, big or small, that people would know that have strong values in place and that have positively affected their business you give us an example.
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David Baer
26:28
Gosh. Okay, well what. So why are values important. You know, I think one of the things that
26:36
This is not really addressing the, the question that you asked in the way that I think you want it to. But let’s think about some of the very
26:47
Polarizing things that are happening in our world these days. Okay. Um, let’s, let’s, you know, talk about a
26:56
I’m trying to think, exactly what the situation was but a bakery that refuse to make a wedding cake for a same sex couple because they didn’t believe
27:06
You know that same sex marriage was appropriate. And so they weren’t willing to support that now had that bakery had some clarity around
27:18
That being a core piece of their, you know, their worldview and what was important to them and what was important to them in the way that they operated their business.
27:28
They may well have done things to appropriately or properly project that to connect with like minded consumers.
27:40
And to repel. Those who were not a good fit for using their services. Right, right. So I think I know you’re I know you’re asking for a big name company, but I think that’s probably that probably gives you, you know, a perfect example of why this is important because
27:58
We all have priorities in in in our lives and in in our perspective on the way the world operates and who we want surrounding us. And if you don’t
28:10
Think about prioritize those things in the way that you build your business, you may be setting yourself up for attracting all the wrong people.
28:22
Simply because you’re not clear enough. Now, I mean, like I said, that was a polarizing example, but I think it very clearly illustrates the importance of
28:32
Projecting identifying and then projecting properly so that you are connecting with the people who are most likely going to support your business.
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Steve Werner
28:43
Absolutely. Um, I mean, things that come to top of mind for me or chick fil a is a really easy one to point two on love them or hate them. I’m not saying what you should do or
28:53
Wherever, but they have attracted a very strong consumer base that is wrapped their ravenous fans. They will spend more money.
29:01
They will go there more often Hobby Lobby comes to mind.
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David Baer
29:05
Well, I mean both. Both of these are ones that have politically charged
29:09
Right donations that have offended certain people or have intern attracted people because of their perspective on, you know, particular
29:21
highly charged issue.
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Steve Werner
29:23
So I agree 100% and what you’re saying. I know that some people out there get really squeamish. And they’re like, but I don’t want to offend anybody
29:32
I don’t want to be polarizing. Well the idea is that you’re drawing a line and you’re taking a side and you can stay away from religion. You can stay away from politics, but you should take sides there.
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David Baer
29:43
Despite the three examples that we just came right yes so I’m giving you a lighter weight one their bars out there.
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Steve Werner
29:50
That so I lived in Wrigley Ville for a while and in Chicago, right, all the bars there.
29:56
Supported the Cubs except for one that didn’t
30:02
Mm hmm. So the one who didn’t was always packed because the people who lived in Wrigley Ville, but didn’t want to watch the Cubs could go to that bar.
30:13
I always thought that was really interesting. I didn’t get it at the time, but now looking back on it, I get that one quite a bit. Um, but there. If a bar if you wherever you’re at. If you’re in Boston. And there’s a bar that you know follows
30:28
The Dodgers.
30:30
It’s going to attract the Dodgers fans. Right. Like that’s drawing a line. The other things could be. I mean, stay away from politics and religion, you could just be
30:40
Stay away from politics, religion, and if you’re going to compete on price, you’re going to finish the sentence for me. What should people do.
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David Baer
30:47
Well, I was, I was gonna say don’t
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Steve Werner
30:50
Be the most expensive in the market. If you’re going to
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David Baer
30:54
Practice that.
30:54
That is true. That is true.
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Steve Werner
30:56
Be the most expensive, but you have to follow up. You have to be the best service. You have to do all the other things, the best as well.
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David Baer
31:02
That arises in line with the pricing. Yeah, yeah.
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Steve Werner
31:06
Otherwise, throw the price out the window don’t compete on price people at the end of the day, buy from people they know like and trust. Those are the three things, and the fastest way you can do that.
31:16
Is by being polarizing aligning with their values, treating people well doing a good job, whatever side of the political spectrum. You’re on. It doesn’t matter. Treat people. Well, right. Like if you do that, you’ll work well. The same thing goes for politics, religion, any of it.
31:34
You should always treat people well um so we kind of covered
31:39
Where strategy falls in what would be the biggest thing that you think
31:45
Would help people add money to their bottom line in the business outside of strategy if somebody just came to you. Let’s say they have some strategy going I’m asking for a tactic. What do you. What’s your favorite one or two tactics.
31:59
Because I know people don’t ask.
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David Baer
32:03
This is, this is gonna ride a little bit on the coattails of what you were just saying about treating people well because I think that
32:12
Too many businesses focus on two areas of finding clientele. One is getting new people in the front door all the time, attracting new leads right. The other one is referrals.
32:29
But what most businesses don’t focus on nearly enough by a long shot is taking really good care of the customers, they have. And so what is the tactic that I would say most businesses should focus on
32:45
Is surprising delighting and wowing the, the, the fans that already exists. The people were making them fans right creating fans out of your existing clientele.
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Steve Werner
32:57
What are some easy ways that businesses can do that.
33:01
Well, I agree.
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David Baer
33:02
What yeah one one is communicating
33:06
I mean, that’s, that’s something that I think it’s pretty darn easy
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Steve Werner
33:10
Oh my god, I have to send an email and actually like say something nice.
33:15
Is that, is that what you mean.
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David Baer
33:16
Yep, just, just before we got onto record this, my partner and I were talking about a winery client of ours, and I do work with some wineries still
33:25
That has a dedicated email marketing program they email quarterly
33:33
That’s for whole emails a year.
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Steve Werner
33:38
Wow.
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David Baer
33:39
We’ve, we’ve addressed that with them. But that’s not uncommon.
33:44
Get I’m not a writer for emails a week.
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Steve Werner
33:48
A week telephone wine story chicken soup for the wine lovers soul.
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David Baer
33:54
Every week
33:54
We’re going to come back. But yeah, you get the point.
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Steve Werner
33:57
Well yeah, I mean whatever name. It’s something else wine corks
34:01
Like that’s I mean that I think that’s a home run. Everybody loves to read stories about people that drink wine. Here’s something crazy that happened anyway.
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David Baer
34:10
But, but here’s, here’s the reason why. These guys don’t do it. They’re too busy.
34:15
And that’s, that’s a chronic problem that most businesses have is that they’re not prioritizing the things that are actually revenue generating for them.
34:25
That is
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Steve Werner
34:25
Coming. That is one of the biggest problems in the world, by far, when I consulted for businesses you
34:33
Same thing. I walk in and be like, you’re spending 80% of your time on things that do not make money or matter, but they’re important to you, right. That’s what they always say what but I need to do XYZ. No. Nope. Nope. Anyway, yeah, I love that answer, because I think it
34:55
Go, I’ma let you talk more about the email or communicating, because that’s turning existing clients. You’ve spent the money. The most expensive cost in business is generating a new client.
35:06
Your referrals will go up and your customers will rebuy from you over and over and over again. If they love you, the more they love you, the more they will buy
35:15
Yes. So emails. One way to reach out to them. What’s another way that people can communicate that might be even easier.
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David Baer
35:23
That might be even easier.
35:26
In. You know, I think that if you program things into your business to either reward or acknowledge your clientele.
35:37
I’m not sure what would be easier than email because frankly I find email pretty darn easy
35:42
But, but it’s the experience. I see. I see where you’re going, Yeah, you know, I was, I was just on a call yesterday with my, my good friends over at keep
35:57
Who have announced that they are about to drop the famous Infusionsoft name. I don’t know when you’re hearing this, BUT COME FEBRUARY 2021 Infusionsoft will be no more and
36:13
They are incorporating SMS automation into their platform. And so, yes, I think you’re seeing more and more for an existing customer who is giving you their, their phone number.
36:26
And giving you permission to contact them that way. By the way, that’s important, then that’s that’s even easier to get people to engage with you because it is a tool their phone that is always on their person anywhere they go even the unmentionable places they go
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Steve Werner
36:50
Well that’s, I mean, phone, email video. The biggest thing though that I’m gonna hit on because I know people are like, I one of my clients.
36:58
Was like, I don’t want to send emails, because I hate getting spam. I said, well, then don’t spam people take the time. How do you email somebody
37:05
Right when I if I were emailing you I’d say, Hey, David. What’s going on, man. I wanted to check out x, y, z.
37:12
Right, it’s going to be three sentences is going to provide value. If I tell you a story. It’s going to be a great funny story, it’s not going to be. Hey, David. Look at what I’m selling. I really hope you buy my stuff.
37:26
Because nobody wants that email.
37:28
Right.
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David Baer
37:29
Yeah, you know, there are marketers who are very, very successful doing that. However, they they burn the relationship with their subscribers.
37:41
Very quickly.
37:42
Right. It’s so it can be highly profitable but you have to constantly be adding new people to your email list.
37:50
Who are going to put up with that for a while and buy everything you got and then
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Steve Werner
37:54
And then leave when you can sell it an email. I have no problem with the sale.
37:58
But it, it shouldn’t be like in like push like that shouldn’t be your only point because nobody likes the realtor that comes in and says, Hey, can I list your house can list your house can list your house.
38:08
Like the realtor shows up says, Hey, what are you doing, man. How’s your son doing. How are you guys doing
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Unknown Speaker
38:13
Yep.
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David Baer
38:15
So I think, you know, I work with a lot of financial advisors.
38:20
And one of the things that we focus on is, what can I say in emails, if, if you’re in that profession. First of all,
38:31
Just like any other profession. You’re way too busy to be emailing people so you don’t. And so what you end up doing.
38:37
Is the, the broker dealer or whoever you’re working with those who are runs the back office of your business.
38:45
Gives you access to a vendor that they have worked at a deal with who writes the emails for you and you just like, you know, yeah, yeah. Put it into your email marketing system. It’s really, you know,
39:02
engaging content about
39:05
financial derivatives and the latest you know product that’s available for for you to, you know, do some sort of reverse mortgage on your home. Oh, it’s so compelling.
39:18
I mean totally facetious.
39:20
The sarcasm. Yes. The so so we and so a lot of these guys send it out and they hate it. And they said, well, email doesn’t work.
39:30
And I said, Well, here’s the problem you’re sending people stuff they don’t care about nobody hears about these these products that you have. They care about you, caring about them.
39:43
They care about themselves. And so how do we build that relationship. So you were given some some examples of the Personal and personable way in which we engage via email.
39:54
But then what do you write about well for for our clients their email list of non clients. So people there’s they’re trying to get to become clients.
40:08
The, the call to action. I’m pretty much every single email is here’s the link to schedule an appointment with me.
40:15
But how do we get from, you know, dear so and so to schedule the appointment. And so I work through a list that I’m constantly adding to have
40:27
Types of emails, they can right
40:30
Leverage something that’s in the news that they care about, right, or write something about something cool that happened to your family.
40:40
Or write something if you work with business owners, talk about the fact that you’re a fellow business owner and here’s something that you do in your business and you highly recommend that service or that product that they should check it out.
40:55
And then, and then we talked about lots of ways to bridge the the content of the email to the, oh, by the way, here’s where does book the appointment.
41:05
Now I brought something up that I think is important because it kind of we haven’t addressed this, and I kind of glossed over it earlier, which is the importance of having this speaks a little bit to something you raised earlier when we were talking about polarization is
41:22
If you take a stand. If you are if you position yourself a certain way, you are likely to attract a certain type of individual or a certain demographic or a certain profession or a certain whatever and the more specific you can get about who it is you are serving
41:40
The more effective. You can be in the types of communications. I was just talking about. So one of the the areas that I tell my clients to focus on in their emails.
41:52
Are to write about things that their audience or their, their subscribers care about
41:57
Now if they have a subscriber list of anyone and everyone under the sun. The only thing that they can think of that those people are going to care about is their retirement.
42:07
And nobody frankly is interested in receiving emails about retirement. So one of the activities we engage in early on with clients is to get a really, really, really clear picture we go a little overboard on this on their ideal client avatar.
42:23
So much so that we’re looking at, you know what, hobbies are these people interested in what magazines do they read
42:31
Who you know who are their, what are their favorite movies. What books with so that you can tie all that stuff into these emails that they’re gonna say, oh,
42:41
John john macarthur just died. Right. Maybe he’s a huge fan. Or maybe, maybe, you know, the readers are huge fan of his work. Let’s talk about that. And you can leverage that kind of thing.
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Steve Werner
42:52
That’s, I mean it’s 100% true. Um, I always i mean i our client base is a little bit different.
42:59
Um, I just tell people to write about things that they care about, but write it in a way that’s fun and exciting to read
43:06
Because you will attract the people that are like you for in coaches are consultants, you want to work with people that you like financial advisors are a little bit different, but it’s the other thing that I say that is the easiest
43:17
To me is if you can’t think about anything that you would want to say send a quote or send a funny joke.
43:25
Send something that makes people laugh. If you do that, they will remember you. And they’ll open your next email because subconsciously they remember feeling good.
43:35
And you can’t ever go wrong, making somebody feel good. Hey, I’m a financial advisor. I just wanted to make you laugh because the markets down a little bit today, check out this crazy cat video
43:45
If you want to schedule an appointment with me and help your retirement account. Here’s the link like I would do something like that short and sweet. Most people open it on their phone. So if you send them a mile long email. They’re not going to read all of it. That’s my opinion, but
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David Baer
43:59
I actually agree with that and I’m stealing your idea it’s it’s going into it’s going into the swipe file.
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Steve Werner
44:04
Thank you. Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s
44:06
You can never go wrong, making somebody laugh ever like I my email open response rate. Now my email open rate is over 24%
44:16
I mail four to eight times a week. Like, there are a couple of days. I sent two emails a day if I’m, if I’m really hammering on something, usually. It’s usually I try to stay around five days a week.
44:25
I’m even with the stuff going on with Gmail. Right now I’m keeping my email open rates up because people enjoy reading my crap and I can’t spell. I don’t have good grammar.
44:35
I know these things I in my onboarding sequence like hey I don’t write so well. I’m really good at video but I want to keep in touch with you. It’s important to me every email you get is going to be written by me probably at 11 o’clock at night after I’ve had some scotch. Enjoy.
44:51
Beautiful.
44:52
But that if you just listen to that, that probably connects with you on some level right like no one can be upset if I misspelled word
45:01
They know I’m professional. They know I care. But that’s the email is still eat people who say email is dead, I laugh at, because they’re missing the boat.
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David Baer
45:11
Yeah, and 20 something percent open rates, by the way, these days is pretty spectacular. I mean, I think that it’s, you know, average across the board is is somewhere around 12 at this point and
45:22
You know, going, going down even further, but when you follow some of the suggestions that you made.
45:29
That’s that you’re training people to look forward to that next email because the stuff that you send them is fun, right. So what one of the principles that I shared with most of my clients is
45:42
You know, unless you’re, you know, if a business where it’s just totally inappropriate. You should be entertaining in your email as much as possible.
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Steve Werner
45:51
Don’t buddy. Everybody loves entertainment. Anyone who argues, and says they’re too professional for that. Um, I would I’ve dealt with some chiropractors I dealt with a plastic surgeon who was like I don’t want my people to laugh. They need to understand that I’m stoic and
46:08
I said, that’s your, your boring is what you are. We had a really fun conversation around that. But then we went our separate ways. So whatever I’m
46:17
David. This has been a super fun conversation ranging
46:22
From everything. I mean, we’ve we’ve covered the world which is fun. What’s your favorite wine.
46:29
favorite, favorite white
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David Baer
46:31
Favorite white
46:33
Yeah, and
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Steve Werner
46:35
You got a white and red.
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David Baer
46:36
I well yes and they happened. Well here’s the thing, my favorite winery produces both
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Steve Werner
46:42
Okay.
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David Baer
46:44
It is a winery based in real hot in this in this very tiny town of arrow called Lopez already
46:53
And they, they are old, old school from the 1870s and they released their reds and their whites pretty darn late after vintage typically something like
47:09
Eight to 10 years and I love classical old white we are
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Steve Werner
47:17
All right, I was asking because if anybody got something out of this, you need to go to contact David send him a bottle of wine. He’ll probably have a chat with you and help you grow your business.
47:28
You also talk to me. But he’s going to be your contact for financial advisors or if you just want to send them some good wine. I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing all of your information with us if people are looking to get in touch with you. Where should they reach out
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David Baer
47:43
You have a link above or below or around the video then then we’ll just send them to that link. Let’s just do that.
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Steve Werner
47:49
Yeah, it’ll everything is in the show notes on you can check him out.
47:54
Thank you so much for being a wonderfully entertaining guests and sharing all of your wisdom with us, David. It’s been great having you on
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David Baer
48:02
Thanks, the ticker.
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Steve Werner
48:03
No problem to all of the rest of you. We will see you next time. Until then, take action change lives and make money. We’ll see you soon.

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